Sunday, 30th April 2017

John DiFronzo And Jasper Campise

Posted on 11. Aug, 2011 by in Organized Crime

On a cool spring day in 1983, Joey O (Chicago Outfit Chieftain Joseph Aiuppa) summoned his underboss, Jackie Cerone, to his home in Oak Brook, Illinois. A loyal soldier, Jackie made sure to be there. As was typical, the now late Outfit henchman Willie Messino picked Jackie up at his house and ferried him to Joey O’s home.

The meeting was called so Joe could lay out his plans to ‘knock down’ (Outfit code for murder) Outfit member Jasper “Jay” Campise and Outfit associate Cook County Sheriff Deputy John Gattuso. Joey O and Jackie were enraged that Campise and Gattuso had botched a hit on then Outfit gambling boss Ken Eto. Despite shooting Eto in the head multiple times, Eto had survived and managed to drag himself to a hospital. Forensics had later determined that Eto lived because Campise and Gattuso had put too little powder in their hand-made bullets.

Aiuppa and Cerone were no fools. They quickly realized how much heat The Outfit would have to deal with now that one of their own (Campise) was actually identified as Eto’s attempted killer. Campise and Gattuso would need to die, and these murders needed to be done right.

This particular meeting between Aiuppa and Cerone was merely one of a number of conferences on the matter involving the failed Eto hit. This time Joey O summoned Jack to his home to explain that he would call on a few of his favorite assassins, individuals like “Black Sam” Carlisi, Frank “The German” Schweihs and Freddy “Porky” Pordyla, to kill Campise and Gattuso. For whatever reason, Jackie would not hear of it. He pleaded with Joe to allow him to personally mastermind and execute the murder plot that would end the lives of Campise and Gattuso.

A number of investigators have long been under the false belief that two (now of late) Outfit heavyweights, Vince Solano and Joseph “Caesar” DiVarco, masterminded the Outfit hits on Campise and Gattuso. This could not be further from the truth. Solano and DiVarco played key roles in orchestrating the failed Outfit hit on Eto, which is why they were not heavily relied upon for the cleanup work in killing Campise and Gattuso. Aiuppa and Cerone were clever enough to make it appear to other thugs as if Solano and DiVarco were in charge of the murder plot as a way to protect themselves – a very common exercise for Outfit leaders. Solano and DiVarco were certainly eager to wash their hands of Campise and Gattuso, but make no mistake in understanding that Aiuppa and Cerone served as the driving force behind their tragic demise.

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  • The Don

    Everything made sense until you got to the point of DiFronzo ejaculating. That is pure ridiculous bullshit. Your hatred of DiFronzo over rules your better judgement and undermines your credibility.

    • The Don,
      I appreciate your opinion and do know that I fought with myself about putting ‘that’ in my article because I suspected that it might cause doubt, but my source insists on it being true. In fact, I know of one other person in the Outfit that was sexually stimulated by violence. In addition, I have talked to doctors about the subject and it has been explained to me that it is not uncommon for people with mental illness to have such experience. Lastly, for the record, Giacchino is the one I hate more than anything in the world. Do you suggest that a man like DiFronzo would not suffer from mental illness?

      • Your talking about sadism–deriving (sexual) pleasure from causing injury or humiliation. I wouldn’t be surprised if a person capable of the acts you’ve described would be mentally ill or deeply traumatized. Then again, I don’t know him, so I couldn’t say.

        You source for this story is now deceased?

        • Actually, I have two sources and one is dead.

          • I hate to push the issue, but I am wondering how your source was able to determine that he had ejaculated? That’s the kind of thing that would require empirical evidence. 

            If I’m in line at Starbucks, and the guy standing next to me shoots in his pants, how would I know, unless he dropped trou, or he told me he did? 

          • Fair question. Johnny told my source about it later as they both laughed.

          • Whostooknow

            Was that the dead source or the alive one? I heard that Difronzo’s circulation wasn’t the best back then…
             If you know the man as well as you say, you know what I’m talking about.

            Didn’t Difronzo take trips up to Mayo back then?

            As far as the extreme mental illness thing.. I don’t think he would of become top dog if that was the case..

            How about he got there because he was a smart, calculating, ruthless, SOB?

            Joe, I have to agree with The Don on this one
              

          • Dead source told me. Again, according to my “source” it happened they way I explained. Thank you.

          • The Don

            Whostooknow, I agree with you 100%.  Like him or hate him, John DiFronzo is a very sharp cunning guy and that’s how he became the Top Boss of the Outfit with Elmwood Park being his personal Crew and power base.  The Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Mn has always been a medical haven for Outfit made guys & soldiers. My relative went there for two years.

          • In addition, any reasonable person (no matter how much he or she idolizes their hero) would admit that one who is capable of committing heinous murders suffers from mental illness. If it makes you feel better, I would point out that some of the most brilliant minds in history were compromised by mental illness. Anyone who knows the DiFronzos would also know that Johnny inherited his fathers (Mike) looks and his mother’s mental illness.
            Have any of you ever witnessed the look of excitement and joy in Johnny’s eyes when handed a switchblade as a gift?

          • Merlin Tenderpony

            No, have you? Were you there when he was given a switchblade as a gift? Who gave it to him?

          • One morning about 12-years ago, a man dropped a couple of switchblades off at Gene’s Deli in Elmwood Park, Illinois, for Willie (I was with Willie at the time – Willie had someone in mind that would sell the knives for a profit). Shortly after the man left us, Johnny appeared at the deli. Johnny and Willie usually greeted each other almost every morning at Gene’s Deli. Well, as clockwork Johnny said hello as he saw Willie fidgeting around with one of the knives. He reached out for Willie’s knife, as a kid would grab for a toy. The look in Johnny’s eyes and on his face reminded me of what a junkie or gambler getting their hands on money after a dry spell would look like. He loved the knife so much, Willie told him to keep it. He thanked Willie as if it were 10-grand. As he looked at the knife, he said, “This is nice, real nice.”

          • The Don

            Joe,  I never heard from you know who that Joe Gagliano dabbled the other way on many occasions. I also never heard that Johnny’s Mother’s side of the family had mental illness. However, in all fairness to you, both statements may very well be true because my relative loved Joe Gagliano and loves Johnny to this day and would never reveal such details. All I ever heard was that Johnny inherited his good looks, that he used to have when he was younfger, from his father. Do you believe Pete DiFronzo has the same metal illness? Please be objective with your answer and explain why if the answer is yes. My other relative  who is now dead and had nothing to do with the Outfit was good friends with Pete  & his wife.  

          • Dear The Don,
            My sources have told me that Johnny takes after his mother more than the others (mentally ill), but all of the brothers, including Pete, have mental illnesses to deal with. Either Frank or Ralph DiFronzo (one of Johnny’s late brothers) had a son, nicknamed The Rat, who was a stark raving savage, who could not even get a drivers license.
            Johnny’s wife Rosemary suffers from emotional problems because of the affect of her husbands mental problems.

          • FACT

            Pete does not have mental issues.  This article is so stupid.  You think you know these guys and you dnt.  Maybe you have the mental problems
             

          • Horsey F@rt

            I’m not defending Messino or DiFronzo, but I carry a no b*llshit folding knife myself  just about everywhere I go. I’ve ran into trouble before, what can I say. Thank God I’ve never had to use it. 

            They’re not bad things to carry, in my opinion. Especially if you live or work or otherwise spend time in a rough area like I do.

          • Dear Horse…,
            You and millions of people carry knives. My point is that DiFronzo was entirely too excited by the knife.

      • The Don

        Joe, I know who your sources are. The dead source was Willie Messino. Your live source is Mike Magnaficchi. I do not think DiFronzo is worse than John Gacey. DiFronzo is no better or no worse than Auippa or Cerone or Carlisi. He’s worse in your opinion because you hate him. I have seen the other site that has made all those comments about you. Even though I was upset with you, I never commented on that site because  I am a gentleman despite some mistreatment  by you.  As far as the Outfit is concerned, I personally enjoyed being indirectly connected to it all my life from high school, college and through adulthood. Having a relative who used to be an active member of one of the 6 street crews was  beneficial in several ways. I wish the Outfit was powerful like it used to be in the good old days. Too bad it has degenerated like everything else in this country.

      • Horsey F@rt

        Joe, I wanted to let you know, along the same lines at the Don, that I didn’t  comment on that other site either, and I suspect that most of the ANP regulars (old and new) didn’t either. I realize that you have a private life and that everyone has their faults and shortcomings, but I didn’t buy into their lurid portrait of who your “really” are. 

        Calling someone overweight and homosexual is literally something that elementary school children do. Whatever its purpose, the other site left me with the impression that whoever your enemies are, they can’t beat you at your own game, and that a good deal of what you say is truthful. If ANP’s stories really were as outlandishly absurd as they say, your enemies wouldn’t be rushing to silence you the way they have.

      • Horsey F@rt

        Your YouTube antagonist has put up a new video, as you know. I checked the comments this morning and was taken (and personally inspired) by the following one, which I think you should take to heart:

        What are you, a tough guy? Leave Joe alone. He’s a cool guy. You’re saying he has no friends and that he has a lot of enemies. Well, there’s an old saying that goes:”You have enemies? Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.”NearWestPaisano 12 hours ago

      • Dom

        Another informative article on the Outfit. I do not believe DiFronzo was ever suspected in participating these murders. Joe, this is a disgusting subject, but I have to ask to clarify my hunch. Who was the other Outfit guy that got off on killing people?

        • Allow me to explain. The other person you are asking about told me that he ejaculated many years ago while kicking a man in they head while the man was on the ground unconscious. He further explained that every time he kicked the man in the head he (the kicker) would have an additional orgasm. I am sorry but the individual is one of my sources and I would rather not give up the name.

        • The Don

          Dom, I believe the other person was Sam DeStefano. However, there was really no debate or speculation about him. He was a ruthless killer and was known to have gotten some sexual satisfaction from doing it. He was a made guy who belonged to the extended Taylor Street Crew years ago. He was killed in 1973. Even the other Outfit guys knew he was sick  & crazy. A lot of other made guys politely avoided him.  Some of his  soldiers that collected for him were terrified of him. 

          • Dom

            The Don: Thanks for your info. DeStefano was the one I thought Joe may have been referring to in his comment. I was surprised to hear it was one of his sources.

            Joe, do you know any details on DeStefanos murder?

          • Dear Dom,
            While agree with both you and The Don that Dyno probably ‘got off’ during violent situations, he was not my source (I never knew him), nor the person whom I was referring to.
            I have some wild stories that Willie shared with me about Dyno, no details of him committing murders. In fact, I should write an article on my knowledge on Dyno – it would be interesting.
            Thanks.

          • The Don

            Dom, Dyno, Mad Sam Destefano, was not one of Joe Fosco’s sources. However, he was absolutely crazy and got off on killing people. I was answering your question about who was another Outfit guy that had a sexual perversion with violence. Sam DeStefano was that kind of person. He was shotgunned to death in 1973 right in front of his garage over in the Galewood neighborhood of Chicago. He was born in 1909 and grew up on Taylor St.  He was one of the first made guys left over from the extended Taylor St. Crew to get killed. The other two that followed were Chuckie Nicoletti and Chuckie English. In 1973, Auippa was the Top Boss of the Outfit and Boss of the extended Cicero Crew. Cerone was the Underboss and Boss of the extended Elmwood Park Crew. When I say extended, that refers to the Street crews of the two Top Bosses in the Outfit who also are still Bosses of their Crews which are their power bases. The Killing of these three men were the culmination of the power shift that took place in the Outfit after Giancana was gone in the late 1960’s. The power center of the Taylor Street  Crew  shifted slightly south and became known as the 26th street crew. One such survivor from the Taylor St. Crew who was already operating in the 26th St. area was a guy named Skids Caruso. 

      • Joe Gags

        Fosco, You are a sick person. John DiFronzo never killed anyone. I think that YOU have a premature ejaculation talking about the DiFronzos who have never done anything to you. In addition, you have no proof of your allegations, and Willie Messino never told you this stupid ridiculous story. If Willie were alive today, he would have already put a bullet right between your eyes for making up such sick nonsense and attaching his name to it as your source.

        • The commenter who is known by many assumed names including his or her recent name “Joe Gags,” is obviously working at an insignificant pace in attacking American News Post as he or she lashes out in aid of Johnny DiFronzo, who is the known boss of bosses of one of the most lethal criminal organizations ever based in America.

    • The Grim Reaper

      Willie Messino told me that Armando Fosco, Joe’s Father raped a couple of young girls. It’s true because I say so and that’s what Willie told me in confidence.

      • Grim,
        Anonymous hearsay is less credible than hearsay coming from someone who is willing to be identified. In addition, your retaliatory comment is silly.

  • Horsey F@rt

    Was your source there? This whole scenario is f*cking sick and terrifying.

    Good to see you’re writing again.

    • Yes.

      • Geek899273

        Hey Joe, once again congrats on another great article.  Please keep them coming.  I spend a good portion of my day at work reading your articles.  Thankfully I’m not out of a job yet.

  • Thank you – yes.

  • Merlin Tenderpony

    Was Campise made?

  • Merlin Tenderpony

    This murder was one of the ones cleared by Nick Calabrese in 2007, but it was not part of the Family Secrets case itself.

    Among the Campise and Gattuso’s killers, Calabrese specifically named Carlisi (as per your article here) and Jimmy DiForti. 

    • Really, DiForti? Interesting. Well, as I said, I was aware that other unknown were present. Thank you.

  • Horsey F@rt

    Who was Campise with? Also, what was Gattuso’s story? Was he aspiring to be made, or was he just moonlighting as a hitman?

    • I believe Campise was with Solano. Yes, like every Outfit lackey, Gattuso was aspiring to be ‘made’. I think Gattuso had some sort of popcorn business as well.

      • Horsey F@rt

        Did you here how Campise and Gattuso were abducted? 

        Also, I wanted to ask you a question about how you and your source(s) came to discuss this stuff. I’m assuming they’re made. I can’t imagine talking to someone about murders. Were they just blowing off some steam, or embittered, leading them to implicate their friends in serious crimes? (I am not suggesting they’re dishonest.) How did this all come out?

        • Two ‘made’ members of the Outfit, one dead and one alive, felt/feel very close to me, and were/are. The now late source and I spent every day of his last days together talking, which took several months. He opened up about a great deal because he had nothing to lose. In fact, he would have probably murdered someone as Jack Ruby did because he would not face any consequences. Both individuals lost respect for Johnny in some ways, which is why I think they dropped their guards a bit. However, I doubt that the now deceased source ever thought that I had it in me to write about the things that I learned from him.
          The other source, who is alive, I believe, confided a great deal in me as a way to deal with the stresses of his life – he is a weaker person than the deceased source. He is constantly up and down with his intentions of writing a book about the Outfit with me. Some days, he does not care what people will think of him and other days he is very concerned about it.

  • Horsey F@rt

    Joe, I hate to clutter the thread with a stupid comment, but, I’m not sure if you noticed but Jasper Campise looks like a confused, bedraggled version of Perry Mason. 

    What are your thoughts?

  • Merlin Tenderpony

     Whostooknow made a good point about someone who is mentally ill not being able to ascend the ladder in a criminal organization, ultimately achieving rank of Top Boss. But, it is important to remember that many individuals who are afflicted with sociopathy and psychopathy are very successful businessmen who are by their very nature especially shrewd, aggressive, deceptive (and so on), giving them an edge over normal businesspeople. Many of these afflicted people are aware of the fact that they are sociopaths and psychopaths but learn how to *act* normal because they know doing so is in their own self-interest, and they are driven by nothing but self-interest. Only those who have the unfortunate experience of truly getting to know these people realize that they are sociopaths / psychopaths. The rest of the world remains fooled.

    There’s a book out there titled, The Mask of Sanity, by H. Cleckley, and
    it’s about this whole phenomenon. The worst bastards in our societies
    wear “masks” of sanity.
    John Wayne Gacy is an excellent example of someone who was perceived as being a successful businessman and a community advocate but in reality was a community predator and menace of the worst kind. I myself believe that I dealt with a sociopathic salesman when I purchased a dishwasher recently. I’m sure it won’t be too long before he’s running Sears, Roebuck, and Co.

  • Thank you.

  • Special Quest Explorer

    I almost didn’t make it to the bathroom when I saw this,  LOL!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uR_H3UjZWm0&feature=related

    He shakes when he mentions Caputo’s food store, but he has never experienced it. I have. So now who is the guy? No sweetheart, he is the Gimp! (This is Tonto speaks on Joe Fosco.

  • Horsey F@rt

    Joe, was Willie Messino at the Spilotro killings? It’s been repeated in the threads over and over again that Nick Calabrese was unfamiliar with 3 of the men who were there. One of them wore glasses. Messino was released from prison in the 70’s, if I remember correctly. Do you know if he was there? I imagine that these 3 could have been Willie, Lee, and, as you said, maybe your dad.

    • Willie was not at the murder scene. Lee was there, but he did not wear glasses. I do not fully trust the sources who told me that my father was involved enough to publish it as a fact. One of the main reasons I gave the idea a thought in the first place pertained to the information I received from a family member of Joe Nick, who told me that Joe Nick seemed impressed with my fathers history as an alleged hit man, coupled with another source who told me that my father had something to do with the Spilotros getting killed, however could not explain how he knew about it (neither of these two sources are ‘made’). Furthermore, in my own calculating, I reminisced about meetings that my father had with Joe Nick and Louie The Mooch and Sam Carlisi’s cousin and enforcer, Charlie Nicosia, right before the disappearance of the Spilotros. I remember that my father had not seen Louie in many years prior to their meeting in early 1986 (my dad was a friend of Louie’s father Tommy).

      However, my father’s photos have been published in the article that I wrote about him several months ago – Nick Calabrese has not emailed me to tell me that my father was the unidentified guy with the glasses in Jimmy T’s basement.

      As a side note, I have been informed that Pete DiFronzo recently told a few different people that my father was a great guy and that he and his brother John cannot figure out why I am writing about them. Well, I will take this opportunity to let Pete know that the financial ruination of a portion of my family (coupled with the FBI notification of the Outfit hit against my life), which the DeFronzos allowed, caused me to I wake up, helping me to decide to fight against corruption through the written medium (as if Pete did not know my reasons prior to this message, LOL).

  • Horsey F@rt

    Joe, knives and ropes were/are the weapons of choice for many Outfit guys, as I understand it. They can be carried without arousing any suspicion, and can be carried legally, within reason (even if you are a convicted felon). This obviously wasn’t always the case, as many people were murdered by the Outfit with guns and bombs. From 1968 through the 80’s, there was some major gun control legislation , and a lot of these gangsters probably realized that it wasn’t worth getting caught carrying and go on to face significant prison time. (Plus, they probably grew to like the fact that knives are silent.)There is a selection of Spilotro’s knives on display at one of these mob museums out west. Frank & Nick C. were said to have a penchant for knives, too. And there’s a Giancana biographer out there who said Mooney was a knife virtuoso and that his pre-Outfit murders and acts of violence involved knives.  Murdering someone at all is incomprehensible enough, but the twisted intimacy that stabbing and slashing someone to death entails is pure evil. To my mind, murdering someone with a knife would require a serious degree of personal hatred for the victim, or monumental emotional problems.This reminds me of something Black Angelo once mentioned about some Elmwood Park runner who got caught with a pistol equipped with a silencer. I thought it was b.s., but it turned out to be true. I can’t remember the name of the guy, but, man, what a thug.

    • The Don

      Horsey, I answered your question on the other thread Fratto, Cerone &  Billy D. 

  • Look at how Tosto speaks to a toddler:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKNmUFZgkTc

  • FACT

    Joe, you really need to get a life.

    • The Don

      Joe, My two relatives who were not part of the Outfit and were good friends with Pete DiFronzo and his wife never mentioned any kind of mental problems with Pete. I personally never met Pete or Johnny so I don’t really know. How well do you know Pete DiFronzo? If there is mental illness on the mother’s side of DiFronzo’s family, what kind of mental illness? Is it the kind of mental illness that would make someone have sexual gratification from murder? Was his mother ever institutionalized? I’m not saying your accusations are false, I would just like more clarification if you don’t mind.

      • Dear The Don,
        All the DiFronzo boys are psychotic, according to my sources, who go back personally and through immediate family with the DiFronzos for many years. Johnny is said to be the worst of the bunch. Twenty-something years ago Johnny was in a bar with a couple of friends (including one of my sources) and a stranger said something harmless but irritating to Johnny. In the blink of an eye Johnny had a handful of the guys hair wrapped in his left hand with the guys head pressed down on the edge of the bar while Johnny grabbed a nearby beer bottle with his right hand, broke it in half on the edge of the bar and pushed the broken bottle up against the guys throat. I was told that it looked like something in a movie. It was completely out of character from the way Johnny likes to appear in public. Johnny did not kill the guy at the bar, but he screamed at him in a vicious fashion while violently shaking. Everyone with Johnny that evening was surprised but never led on, while keeping their mouths shut.
        Personally, I saw Johnny scream at Willie Messino and Willie shut his mouth as if he were a little kid being scolded by his parent. The only other person that could do that to Willie would have been the late Jack Cerone (and maybe a couple of others who are also now dead).
        I do not believe that the DiFronzo mom was treated for mental illness. It was a different world then. They are all said to have a serious psychotic streak in them, like their mom. Is it that hard to envision? Pete is a ‘made’ Outfit guy. He is not a Boy Scout. If his wife keeps their personal experiences quiet, it only means that she is tightlipped (in my opinion). Johnny is the boss of a gang of killers, why is it difficult to accept that he has mental issues? His son died of an overdose, which was likely a part of the cycle in having a dad with mental issues. Some might say I am being cruel by pointing this out on the internet, but look at whom we are talking about here. Should we have empathy for the boss of a gang of killers?
        Johnny’s dad, Mike, is said to have been a very nice person.
        The Don, if I have missed something, please remind me.

        • The Don

          Joe, Just because Pete is a made guy in the Elmwood Park crew doesn’t mean that he is mentally ill. For that matter, you could say that Willie, Joe Gags and every made guy who was ever involved in murder is psychotic, which could possibly include your father. I think there is a difference between being involved in murder and not liking it at all and being involved in murder and getting actual sexual gratification from it and really enjoy killing someone. Would you not agree? In conclusion, I don’t personally know Pete or  Johnny so I wouldn’t know if you were telling this story abouy Johnny getting sexual gratification from murder because you hate him or because it’s true. However, in your defense, if the story came from Willie, which I believe it did, it’s probably true because Willie hated anybody making false accusations about his friends or himself. For the record, would you confirm it was Willie. Thanks

          • Dear The Don,
            I mentioned Pete’s status as being ‘made’ as a secondary example that his mental condition would be in question. My first and foremost example is pointing out that Pete’s mental status has been explained to me by one my sources. As to your question asking me to confirm the identity of my source, I will email you about that.

          • The Don

            Fair Enough. Thanks Joe

          • The Don

             Joe, Thanks for the email. Person #1 makes sense. Person #2 turned 75 years old recently and there probably will not be any change there. Maybe sometime in the near future I will give you a call. It’s always easier to fully communicate by talking versus writing blogs on the computer. I think there were a couple of misunderstandings in the past because of this reason. When you get a chance, could you send Black Angelo an email and tell him I said hello. Thank You.

        • Atothe_

          Wow, I can Sooooooo add to this
          Joe Difronzo, his eldest is a big pill dealer: prescriptions. & I know a client of his. In her words, the kid is loco. She will be talking, & in his head he’ll be going. Then as he responds, it’s as if he thinks she was hearing what he was thinking. She says she just plays as if she knows WTF is going on.
          The kid I’m talking bout can be found on FB with his tattoos that say Difronzo under a Italian flag- & “Don’t trust anyone”

          • Mental illness runs rampantly in the DiFronzo family. It comes from their mother’s side. Some of my detractors falsely accused me of exaggerating because of my personal issues with the DiFronzo family. I have not exaggerated anything.

  • Peter is a very tough man. He is physically larger than his brother Johnny is and he knows how to handle himself. Please stop dwelling on Pete’s ability of behaving normal in society. As someone pointed out recently (it could have been you), John Gacy appeared normal and all together to a point where people trusted him with their children at birthday parties.
    I disagree with you that D & P was not affected by the news reports on its connection to organized crime. More than one village, including Elmhurst, dropped them. Perhaps the news reports did not bankrupt D & P, but certainly affected it.
    Not only is Pete guilty of the crime of murder relating to the Rich Penachio matter, but he assisted his brother in several murders over the past 50-years, including some of the murders involving the burglars that entered Joe B’s home and the Spilotro murders. Pete might not have been on site when the Spilotros were killed, but he was Johnny’s trusted accomplice in preparing for the matter.

    • Horsey F@rt

      Joe, I don’t doubt his abilities and stature in the mob. I’m just saying that either by luck or design, he seems to be in a better position than his colleagues. He has legitimate income (or at least his wife does), and not very much is known about him by the public and the media.

      There was a recent news story about how one of his wife’s companies got some CPS contracts this summer . Elmhurst did under 10K in business with his companies per year. I imagine that the CPS contracts were more than enough to make up for it.

      I guess what I’m saying is, if the day ever comes when he is brought up and charges, goes to trial, and headlines and news stories are splashed across the front pages of our papers, it will be interesting to see what is reported because, to those of us who don’t know him but follow this stuff, Peter D. is a mystery man.

    • The Don

      Horsey, There is no question that Pete DiFronzo is a made man in the Chicago Outfit. He belongs to the extended Elmwood Park Crew and is the personal Underboss to his brother Johnny in the same way that Carlisi was the personal Underboss to Auippa in the extended Cicero Crew. Joe Andriacchi is the Capo within the extended Elmwood Park Crew in the same way Joe Ferriola was the Capo within the extended Cicero Crew. Trust what Joe & I say about his stature within the Outfit.

      • Dom

        The Don, what do you mean by extended? You have written that in your comments before, I never bothered to ask what it meant. The extended Cicero crew?

        • The Don

          Dom, Unlike New York, the Top Two Bosses of the Outfit never give up there power base. So, when Joey Auippa became the Top Boss of the Outfit, He still was the Boss of the Cicero crew. However, He now inherits any made guys who reported direct to the previous Top Boss and another made guy becomes the acting Capo within his crew. In his case, it was Joe Ferriola. The same applied to Jack Cerone in the Elmwood Park Crew. However, some of the guys in the Cicero & Elmwood Park crews are DIRECT with Auippa And Cerone along with the other guys they inherited who who were direct with the previous Top Boss who was Giancana.  Made Guys who are involved in union activity are usually direct with the Top Bosses. The bottom line is that not only were Auippa & Cerone still the Bosses of Cicero & Elmwood Park, but they are also over the other crews.  Picture the Outfit like an organized cartel with two Top Bosses.  I hope this makes sense to you.

          • Dom

            The Don, thanks for the info

  • Thank you for the information on the Alegretti connection.

  • Horsey Fart

    I used to know someone related to Alegretti. 

  • Horsey F@rt

    Joe,

    Do you ever talk to The Sponge?

  • The Don

    Joe,  What is Tosto talking about when he says that you were talking about one of his friends who uses anal toys? I never read anything like that on any of your Threads. Did I miss something or is Tosto making up shit?

    • Dear The Don,
      Technically, Tosto is making up shit again. I never said that his friend used anal toys. However, I believe he is referring to a comment that Michael Magnafichi made in one of the “Behind The Scenes” pieces relating to the interview with Michael, where Michael stated something about Alex Dana and his alleged experiences having various objects inserted into his anal cavity by a lover (or lovers). Perhaps Tosto thinks he will get a free dinner at one of Dana’s restaurants for defending him.

      • Dom

        Or a free anal toy. lol

  • I have always wanted to do a piece on Dyno, heck; a movie should be done on the man. The things that he did were unbelievable. I will begin cranking up a piece soon and I will consult with you on it prior to publishing it. Before I start, would you like to write it and consult with me prior to it being published? You could write it as “The Don.”

    • The Don

      Joe,  Thanks for the invitation. I think it would be better if you wrote it but I wouldn’t mind assisting, or you could write it with no assistance from me and I would certainly comment on it. Youre right, It was speculated that Spilotro & Sam’s brother Mario killed him.  As a side note,the famous Bill Roemer was so naive that he actually believed Dyno when he told him that he was never ‘made’ and was independent because he couldn’t conform to the rules of the Oufit. What a joke! My relative told me years ago that Dyno was definetly made and was one of Mooney and Ricca’s best killers. Auippa & Cerone had to wait until Ricca died before they could kill a few of the left over Taylor St. men who didn’t ‘fit in’ with the ‘new regime’. Sammy DeStefano was the first to go. If Fifi Bucciere had not died of natural causes right around the same time, He would have been next. 

      • Very well. I will put something together. Thank you.

  • Special Quest Explorer

    Don, you seem to be very knowledgeable about neighborhood history. I would like to ask you a question about suicide in Berwyn. Do you know anything about a girl I believe her name was Sue, that commited suicide by jumping out a window naked? The reason for this question is because she was related to a mafia guy? First, I was told she was dating the guy, then it was she was part of that family. I want to say that family name may Scallisi? Pardon me for my memory being off, but I think that was the name I remember being told to me? But, the person is still active?  Can you tell me if that is the name  and if you know why she was mudered?  Don, I also, would like to ask you about a Michael Oliver? Do you remember when I talked to you about Riise Park? I am now referring about Sayre school. Do you remember the “Bankers?” A Michael Oliver’s car was found, but he never was? Ok I know that their is a big time ganster with that same name. Now, is this one that is still missing from Galewood? Also, know this, the same ganster Michael Oliver is also, dead, killed from the mob? This Michael Oliver I am referring about lived on New Castle, in Galewood? SQE

    • Horsey F@rt

       Scarpelli, Salerno, Cataudella, Scalise, and Sarno were implicated in the vandalism campaign that somehow resulted in the shooting death of Oliver at his pornographic bookstore. The information was provided by Scarpelli before he committed suicide in prison. 

      • The Don

        All part of the extended Cicero Group.

      • Atothe_

        That wasn’t suicide, that was the german

    • The Don

      SQE,  I’m sorry but I do not know about the girl in Berwyn or about Michael Oliver. My expertise is about the structure of the Outfit, the Street Crew History, and the general way it operates as a business. I do not have details about murders. That part of the Outfit was never discussed and my relative was not involved in anything of that nature. Murder is always done by ‘made’ guys or occasionally soldiers who want to get ‘made’ and are willing to ‘prove’ themselves.

  • Horsey F@rt

    The Don, wasn’t it also said that his other brother Mario DeStefano  teamed up with Anthony Spilotro who together shotgunned Dyno to death?

    The DeSefano brother Dyno killed was named Mike.

  • Horsey F@rt

    Joe, I have heard varying accounts of Sam DeStefano’s importance within the Outfit. Some people have said that he wasn’t “made” because he was a loose cannon and that while he could be relied on for murders and beatings, it was incomprehensible that he would ever have a position of authority. I don’t completely agree with this account. A close relative of mine dated one of Dyno’s relatives in the 1990’s. She acknowledged what was an obvious and significant psychotic streak in Sam, but insisted that he was “made.” She said that even Accardo and Mooney relied heavily upon him for certain things involving money. (He was said to be very good with money.) She also said that there is a family story about how in the 40’s or 50’s Paul Ricca secured a temporary no-show position with some union out in Hollywood for DeStefano when he was facing charges in Chicago for something that could have gotten him 5-years in prison. He spent some time out there until the investigation was effectively derailed by Outfit fixers or the charges were dropped. I have reason to believe this story is true, and it’s why I believe he was “made.” Ricca wouldn’t have done that for just anyone.

    • The Don

      Horsey,  The rumor about Mad Sam not being made came from Bill Roemer. Mad Sam & Roemer hated each other. Dyno was going to kill Roemer but was stopped by the Top Bosses of the Outfit. DeStefano told Roemer he wasn’t made and Roemer believed him. DeStefano also invited Roemer into his home one time during the early part of their confrontations, and before his wife gave Roemer a cup of coffee, DeStefano pissed in it. Roemer dicovered this later. DeStefano was 100% made and belonged to Giancana & Ricca.

  • Logic

    Joe–were the other DiFronzo brothers Frank and Ralph involved in the life?  I was close to Kitty as a child and she was a saint…if she married a gangster I wouldn’t believe it.  Also, did the rat hang around the social clubs along Grand Ave?  

    Finally what is your opinion of Phil Cozzo and Christy Spina?  They appear to be doing well for themselves these days buying/selling bars and such on Grand Ave. 

    • I do not recall any information that would suggest that Frank or Ralph were Outfit (other than being John’s brothers). I have no interesting opinion of Phil and Christy. Both have always been hardworking people and intelligent business-people.

      • Whostooknow

        Joe, if they weren’t outfit, what type of business’s did they work in?

         I once heard that one brother had a big job at a fortune 500 in the area. 

  • Merlin Tenderpony

    The  stories that I’ve heard and read about Mad Sam DeStefano often describe him engaging in criminal behavior while wearing pajamas.

    • Did I ever tell the one about the gumball machine robbery?

      • Merlin Tenderpony

        Let’s here it.

        • Since it would appear that i have not shared it in the threads, i will save it for the piece that i am cranking up. thanks.

  • Horsey F@rt

    There’s that famous story about DeStefano torturing that guy at a Cicero restaurant while simultaneously treating the victim’s family to a lavish dinner in a private dining area. The nearly dead man was publicly urinated on before being released to his horrified family. From what I understand, this was not an usual stunt for DeStefano at all. 

    I was told that when one of his debtors would duck him, Sam would eventually catch up to him, abduct him, and take him back to his house. Then the guy’s family would get a dinner invitation. They’d be forced to sit through a generous meal at the house with DeStefano’s wife and kids, while Dyno was in the basement or garage working the debtor over. Before the night was over, Sam would drag the poor, ravaged, humiliated bastard into the house and present him to his family. 

  • Horsey F@rt

    Joe, btw, I really like the “sort” feature in the threads.

    • Good, thanks.

    • The Don

      Horsey,  If you don’t mind me asking, What does’ btw ‘mean & what is the ‘sort’ feature? What I don’t like about the way the threads are organized now, is that there is no date or exact time like previously. Also, when a new comment is posted, previously the computer would take you right to the comment. On my computer, all  I see are the most recent commentors, and then I have to scroll down and find the actual comments. Is it the same way for you on your computer?

      • Horsey F@rt

        Don, “btw” is online shorthand for “by the way.” 

        The ‘sort feature’ is the drop down menu located above the very top comment that allows users to sort the comments according to how new, old, or popular they are. For instance, if you select “new” the comments will be sorted so that the newest are at the top and the oldest are at the bottom. I have the same issues you described, such as not being directed to a comment after selecting the corresponding link on the ANP homepage. Sorting by “new” would address this, though.Joe, a while ago you implemented these changes and stated that they are intended to make it easier for users to interact and share information. It’s taken a while but I’m only now really starting to appreciate it. I love how someone can view a YouTube video without having to redirect or open another window.I really hope this catches on, and more users join the discussion. The only hurdle is “joining” and logging in with Yahoo or Google. I’m still trying to figure out how to go about it, so that my comments don’t need to be moderated.

        • The Don

          Horsey,  Thank You very much. As you can see, I know a lot more about how the Outfit operates in general structure and business than I do about operating my own computer. I checked out what you said and it was very helpful. Again, Thanks!

  • Special Quest Explorer

    JF:
    Yes. D & P Trucking is owned by members of the DiFronzo family. On the
    corner of Lake and Mannheim is a business owned by this company. So he meant
    the DiFronzos were asking about me. 
    Joe Fosco, I was reading through some of you past KFT scrolls, and articles. Joe I came across this line of in on Difronzo. Of course, you may already guess where I am going with this above information. I believe I found it in your Difronzo is a official serial killer article.

    Anyway, where I am going with this question is, do you think that there is a conection with the trucking industry, perhaps, food and drug deliveries indusrty? Now, hear me out, of course, Iam working on a theory. You must know that, for more than a year, I was living on the assumption that Tony Catalano was involved in some sort of trucking operation project. Now, this theory only was brought to mind because of the Brian Lad, Psychic reading that he has on “Youstream” on Anthony Catalano?  His Youtube video states that Anthony Catalano was in a cabin, and his Dream interpretation was; that “he couldn’t make the payment” and that “Plan B a hired truck.” Oh yes, he also said. “Beware of danger on Ewing Road.” I now think he ment Irving Park Road. We all know what happened on Irving Park Rd this year, Right? Referring to the Horse Shoe Inn murders. In 2009 that’s all that was out there on the news feeds at the time.

    Ok, In short where am I going with this? Is it possible, that Dr Giachinno worked with Difronzo on drug truck deliveries? I thinking perhaps, Tony Catalano messed up there? I am also, thinking that Difronzo worked with food truck deliveries and Tony Catalano came in through working with this Andrea guy I told you about, This, is because Tony Catalano hung around with him? SQE

    • In short, no (unfortunately), it is not possible that Dr Giachinno worked with DiFronzo on drug truck deliveries (in my opinion).

    • Horsey F@rt

      SQE,

      Can you clarify or give us some background on this?


       So he meant
      the DiFronzos were asking about me.  

      • Special Quest Explorer

        Yes, I am not sure where thin line Difronzon was asking about me came from< but, I will tell you where question came from. In 2009 as I would run back to the internet to se if they found Tony Catalano, in June 2009 , a Ustream was appearing among his internet feeds. This was a reading from a Psychic named Brian Ladd. (see Brian Ladd Anthony Catalano) through googling. This reading is what I thought about in my head for quit along time. This dream reading states;" I see a cabin," and yes, in real life the guys from Piazza Cafe hung around at a cabin. Brian states he sees woods, I assume that this cabin may have been near woods. It is owned by a girl named Maria.  Brian also, says, "Danger on Ewing Rd," I think he ment Irving Rd.  Brian further states that "Anthony Catalano couldn't come up with the payment." He states that  " Not a used car dealer, but plan B, a hired truck!"
         I haave a suggestion for Lonestar, if you are reading this. Can you also tell me if Michael Defillippis Jr hung at Piazza Cafe, located at Addison and Forest Preserve Dr.? My other suggestion is possibly putting posters in area of down town locations. Why, do I say this? Because, news pappers such as the Tribune have articles making statements claiming that Michael Defillipis Jr. hung on Rush St..! You never know who may able to turn in more connections to Dr. Giachino, also, as well as people that may be a witness to something important to that case. SQE

      • Special Quest Explorer

        http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/1660195

        Horsey,
        I forgot I could just show you Brian Ladd Ustream reading on Anthony Catalano on here. Note. in any event, he mentions woods; and there are woods on Irving Park Rd! SQE

        • Horsey F@rt

          SQE,With all due respect to you and Mr. Catalano’s friends and family, I could not make heads or tails of what was taking place on “Brian’s Dreams.” Is Brian Ladd the chubby, pasty guy in the ringer t-shirt? Is he supposed to be a psychic of some kind? The show seems like it’s being broadcast from his parents’ basement or a treehouse or something.  Did you catch when one of his co-hosts stated that Catalano was last seen wearing an “unknown” t-shirt. I laughed hard at that, whatever it was supposed to mean. Also, up until the end of the segment, the psychic guru was referring to Catalano as “Cat-a-tan-o.” Are viewers supposed to believe that this guy, Brian Ladd, has the ability to perceive information hidden from our normal senses through  telepathy or clairvoyance when he even can’t pronounce his subject’s name properly? His other co-host, whoever he was, didn’t have his shit together either. Ladd totally caught him off guard with the Catalano case, and asked him to add to “the case file” whenever he got a chance to catch up. SQE, with respect, I think if anything, Mr. Ladd is being more of a hindrance than a help to the Catalano case. Brian’s time an effort would be put to better use if he went out and got a different hobby and stopped leeching off of his parents’ wireless service, in my opinion. There are some scathing criticisms of his “work’ all over the internet. He’s a charlatan, too, because he asks viewers for donations. 

          • Special Quest Explorer

            Thank you, Horsey!  There are certainly too many rip offs and fakes out there taking advantage of families in their time of need! I didn’t have this reading done for me. I am uncertain who did. Thanks again. SQE

  • The Don

    Joe,  What was Willie’s opinion about Joey Lombardo?  When Lumpy got out of prison around 1992 or 1993, my opinion is that he was definitely was one of the Two Top Bosses of the Outfit. The other was DiFronzo. From what I remember, right around the time Carlisi went down was about the same time Lombardo got out of prison. In fact I remember specifically sitting at the kitchen table and my relative was reading the paper and he said Cicero ( code name for Carlisi ) is going to college with a few of his own personal guys ( meaning Marcello, Zizzo & Chiarimonti ) and Grand Ave. ( code name for Lombardo) is coming back to where he belongs. So, at least from say 1992 or 1993 until 2003, Lombardo was the Boss of the extended Grand Ave. Crew and one of the the two Top Bosses of the Outfit. I believe the Capo within the Grand Ave. Group was  a guy named Cozzo. From what  I use to hear with off hand comments, Lombardo & DiFronzo both came from the Grand Ave. neighborhood and worked very well together. Lombardo was a very shrewd businessman and probably would have been very succcessful as a legitimate businessman. He also had very strong union connections. I was wondering what Willie ever said about him.  

    • Dear Don,
      Willie never said much about Joe one way or the other, which meant a lot. To me it meant that he respected Joe. I have been in Willie and Joe’s company a number of times (at the same time). Joe busted Willie’s ba**s almost every time I saw the two together. However, Joe never went too far. And, Willie never took it from him. Willie always attempted to give it back, but he just was not as good as Joe was at busting ba**s. I do know that Willie liked Joe. I do not know Joe well enough to understand how he truly felt about Willie. I have mixed feelings about Joe’s position with the Outfit in recent years. I do know that Willie belonged to Johnny plain and simple; and everyone who was anyone knew it.
      I did witness Joe and Willie reminisce about an arrest that they shared in (I assume) the early 60s. According to the story, when the cops called the guys out of the holding tank for their mug shots, Joe came out walking backwards with his pants down and his testicles tucked between his legs, hanging below his ass, as if he was ready to be photographed. Willie laughed very hard as he reminded Joe about the story. Joe laughed too.

      • The Don

        Joe,  In 1964 they arrested Lombardo instead of  another gangster named Joey Lombardi. The defense attorneys knew the mistake but didn’t say anything. When it came time for the witness to identify the men that beat up the juice vitim, he couldn’t identify Joey Lombardo.  Joey Lombardi was the man who should have been arrested. At that time, Lombardi was a soldier who worked under Willie Messino. Willie brought Lombardi into the Elmwood Park Crew with the approval of Joe Gagliano &  Jack Cerone. On the other hand, Joey Lombardo, in 1964,  was a made guy who was  part of the extended Taylor St. Crew. I believe in 1964, Lombardo was under Sam Battaglia. After Battaglia died, Alderisio became the Capo. After Alderisio died, Lombardo became the Capo and by that time the Taylor St. Crew had diminished in power because Giancana was gone and most of the other men were dead. The new power in the Oufit was the Cicero Crew headed by Auippa & the Elmwood Park Crew headed by Cerone. The power center of the remainder of the Taylor St. guys who were in Melrose Park shifted to Grand Ave. when Lombardo became the Capo. Lombardo & Lombardi always had a good laugh over that mixed identity, especially when they ran into each other at the Rosebud.  

        • The Don,
          I would have to believe that we are talking about the same arrest involving Willie and Joe.
          I know (from Joe’s mouth) he detested Milwaukee Phil. He said, “Phil was a c**t.” He insisted that Phil was all bark and no bite. His opinion of Phil contradicts everything I ever heard about Phil. George Colucci told me that he witnessed Phil reject an order from Mooney and according to George, Mooney accepted it without a problem.
          Joe Aiuppa loved Joe Lombardo. Joey O used to call him the Clown. Joey O thought the nickname, which was invented by the media, was very fitting and funny.
          I am still slightly offended that Joe Lombardo busted my ba**s in his testimony during the Family Secrets trial. Now I know how Willie used to feel.

          • Horsey F@rt

            He busted your balls during FS testimony? How?

          • Dear Horse…,
            A family owned residence in Oak Park, which still exists, was identified by some Outfit members as my part-time residence over the years. In fact, I used to periodically bring Willie to visit the principle occupant of the home, who he used to babysit in the 1930s when he was dating a relative of mine (George Colucci would come with sometimes). In addition to the Oak Park location, which was a real part of my identity (in Outfit circles), George Colucci and I were extremely close friends from the middle 1990s to the day he died in the middle 2000s. Now that you are brought up to speed on my significant Oak Park and George Colucci connections, I will point out to you that Lombardo testified that while he was on the lam, George Cloucci sent me to get him and bring him to Oak Park. The testimony is out there on the interment somewhere.
            In a previous comment (sometime last year), I declared that I am not the Joe that Lombardo testified about in his trial. However, to better clarify my meaning, I contend that Lombardo made up the entire story and named me to bust my ba**s. Lombardo could not have meant any other “kid” named Joe from Oak Park sent by Colucci beside me.

          • The Don

            As time has proven, Lombardo turned out to be a better Capo than Alderisio and ascended to be one of the Top Bosses of the Outfit. His Grand Ave. men were very loyal. He also had a good partnership with DiFronzo the other Top Boss the other remaining Capos and their men respected Lombardo and worked well under him & DiFronzo. Sure, there is always a little jealousy or underlying animosity that may surface occasinally, nothing’s perfect. Concerning Milwakee Phil, he was a good earner and was a really rough S.O.B. According to my relative, Nicoletti was even tougher. Joey’s comment about Milwakee Phil sounded like a little bit of Macho Man competition. My relative used to says things like that occasionally and then when I would call him on it, he would change his tone a little. That’s the way these guys generally are in my opinion.

        • Horsey F@rt

          Don,

          Do you know if the soldier Lombardi was close with the Pettit brothers, Joe and Larry? They kept relatively low profiles, and even though their name is commonly spelled “Pettit” they were Italian, and I believe at least one of them were made. (I’ve seen the name spelled “Pettite” as well.) They were Elmwood Park guys. 

          • Joe was ‘made’.

          • The Don

            Horsey,  Lombardi only mentioned them a couple of times in passing. I would say he was not close to them but certainly knew the brothers. I think Joe Petitt was made but I’m not sure about Larry. Joe reported directly to the Top Bosses of the Outfit so you could technically say he was an Elmwood Park Guy. I believe Larry worked under Joe as a soldier.

      • Horsey F@rt

        Joe,

        Didn’t you say that you heard Rocco Lombardo refer to his brother as the Boss of Bosses in Chicago a few years back? I know that such language doesn’t typically apply to Chicago’s mafia model, but do you think there may have been some truth in what he said? Since DiFronzo shelved himself, has Lombardo ever been #1 between the time of his release from prison in 1992 and his recent incarceration?

        • Yes, Rocky declared that his brother was the boss, but Rocky is not reliable. On the other hand, Joe Lombardo could not help from being a boss because almost anyone in the Outfit would listen to him no matter who the boss is – the same goes for DiFronzo.

  • Until Joe Aiuppa and Jack were convicted, Joe Lombardo was loved by them, especially by Aiuppa, as I stated in an earlier message today. After the convictions of Aiuppa and Cerone, Lombardo became a target, but his life was spared for obvious reasons. I cannot understand why Lombardo would have been a target in the 2000s. I will look into it.

  • Horsey F@rt

    Joe,

    Someone I know was familiar with a Nucci Lombardo who was Lump’s older brother.I believe he died 10 or 11 years ago. Nucci was supposedly an athletic guy who was capable of being pretty rough, but wasn’t really an Outfit guy compared to his brother. Do you know anything about him? I ask because you seem to be somewhat acquainted with a variety of old-timers. There was something like a dozen kids in that family, and I know there were other brothers besides Rocco and Nucci. The thing that really helped Lump was that JB had an affection for him. 

    • I believe Nucci was younger than his brother Joe. Yes, “Nooch” died about 11 years ago. He was waked on Harlem and Courtland at Galewood Salerno’s. I attended at his wake. I knew him well. Prior to his death, caused by Leukemia, I helped him at Loyola Hospital get some special accommodations (Willie initially asked me to help him). At the time, I was on the Leadership Society at Loyola and had the ability to ask for small favors. I do not remember if Nooch was at the VA next-door to Loyola or at Loyola. Either way, connections at Loyola could help at either hospital.
      Nooch was one of the City of Chicago’s greatest boosters. Nucci was a nice man, to me.

  • Special Quest Explorer

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=aHg7rSjLHp8

    Oh my gosh, yet, and still another one! I think that this guys in love with Joe!

  • The Don

    Horsey,  The F.B.I. was bullshitting Lombardo to see if they could turn him. Lombardo was a very powerful man and had a strong power base from his extended Grand Ave. Crew. He also was close with DiFronzo who was the other Top Boss in the Outfit. When there was a beef in Melrose Park involving Pete DiFronzo, Johnny spoke to his partner, Joey Lombardo, and Lombardo sent one of his guys out there to try and smoothe things over. Joey Lombardo & Johnny DiFronzo were similar to Ricca and Accardo. The only person who may have had a little bit of jealousy or animosity toward Lombardo behind his back MIGHT have been Marcello from Cicero. However, Marcello would never have even attenpted anything against Lombardo. It would have been unproductive and suicidal. The F.B.I. always trys to divide and conquer. That’s really the only way they can succeed in getting convictions. It didn’t surpise me at all that Lombardo was hiding out in Elmwood Park in 2005. Remember, Elmwood Park & Grand Ave. were very closely allied and that was a very powerful combination. 

  • Special Quest Explorer

    To  The Don, I was listening to Tosto’s “Chicago Outfit” and if you listen to it,  he mentions you. I put this “OUT FIT” Youtube on here earlier! He actually, reads a whole paragraph, that you did a comment on for April 16, this year. The Don, I think you’ll find it funny.  For me, I’d like to find out who he knows and tell the detectives to make him an accessary to murder. Not to mention Obstruction of Justice, by not going with the program and getting witnesses to come forward to help the detectives in the neighborhood murders! He states that, he knows these guys. Well, good, then he should care about what the families are going through in the murders, making them victims! “I have a dream,” does he? I should think that he would do something good for man kind! Please, take a look at what he says about you. SQE

    • Horsey F@rt

      SQE, you should be careful what you’re saying in the threads, as far as who should be the focus of murder investigations and obstruction of justice. As I understand Joe’s stories, most of the people he writes about are not involved at all in the Catalano and DeFilippis situations. 

      • Special Quest Explorer

        Horsey, thank you for pointing out that there is a distinct difference in Joe’s stories and articles then in The Catalano and Defillippis case. How ever, not of it has been proven. I myself, was under the impression that this Dr Giachino  had been threatening this Catalano kid and also, as well as the Defillippis kid. I am saying, and being open to the possibility that an extortion may have been in progress from Giachino. In the same way Joe Fosco was being extorted in his tapesfrom Giachino. Lets face it, this whole area of Elmwood Park is connected. So, with that being said, would it be feasble to state that this Tostos is referring to one and the same area of Elmwood Park? He may be giving us BA BA Bullsh@t, but he is perhaps, saying the truth. Now, by doing this, he has stirred the curiuosty of the advocates of violet crimes in the area.  This is very, very  dicey to me. This person infact, knows people that may know something. My thoughts are, can he possibly use his youtube comedy more intelligently? He doesn’t seem to have a purpose. A statement should be made of good will and not going against the good Joe Fosco can possibly accomplish by making articles of public awareness.  SQE

        • The Don

          SQE,  Forget about Tosto. He is not going to help anybody because he doesn’t know anything about what you’re tring to accomplish. He is a stupid Bullshitter who’s only out for publicity.

  • Horsey F@rt

     Joe and the Don, if you haven’t yet, you should check out the Marcello brothers prison tapes. They are fascinating. You are both more hip to “Outfit speak” than I am, so you would probably be able to decipher a lot more of it. From reading those transcripts and watching the videos, you get a pretty  good idea of Marcello’s general stature. Sarno and Cataudella reported to Mickey, along with a bunch of other guys from Cicero and some tavern owners who were part of their video poker racket. Mickey was also in regular communication with the sons of some other Cicero guys who went to jail along with Infelise in the 90’s. From what is said, it almost seems as if Mickey was of the same level of authority as Zizzo and Tornabene. (Before reading this, I had been under the impression that Mickey wasn’t even made .) Matassa is a more obscure figure who couried messages between the Outfit and legitimate guys. Marcello communicated extensively with mobsters in various prisons and referred to them  in conversation by the name of the prison they were in. For instance “Pekin” = Marco D’Amico. Marcello was extremely interested in what other top guys were up to. He asks about whether “Flapjack” who is in the restaurant business was swabbed by federal agents. At one point Marcello expresses  extreme disappointment with either Tornabene or Mike Sarno for letting “this guy” [?] arm him for a piece of Marcello’s street business. The one thing I took away from thse conversations is that while other mob leaders are just as fierce, Marcello seemed the most ready (maybe even anxious) to take some kind of action out on the street to restore order to his business. At one point, he goes on mild rant about certain people evading prosecution while other guys, like him, are doing ten yers in prison. He also complains about the lack of seriousness of some guys on the street–either his own guys or the bosses of other crews. There’s one really ominous part when he says to his brother, “Is it a joke? I hope they don’t think it’s a joke when I come home, pal.” Actually, much of what he says is punctuated with references to using force, “What the f*ck do I want to see them for? When I see ’em, they’ll know they seen me.” 

    Anyway, if nothing else it makes for an interesting read. 

    • The Don

      Horsey,  I have read most of the Marcello Brothers tapes. I would say you did very well in deciphering Marcello’s Outfit code lingo. I agree with your assessment of Marcello and of the structure of the Cicero crew. Marcello was the Boss, Mickey was his personal underboss, then there is a group of a half of dozen or so made guys who are supervisors and managers, then you have the soldiers who work under them and do the collecting from the associates who do ‘business’ with the crew which were the bar owners. Generally, the bar owners recieve 50% of the gross revenue from each of the machines in their establishment. Marcello, through default, was trying to establish Cicero as the dominent Crew on the street because of purposeful withdrawel of Elmwood Park and the dissarray of Grand Ave. with the Lombardo problems. In my opinion, from rereading the transcripts, Marcello envisioned himself with the appoval of DiFronzo as the Top DAY TO DAY Boss of the Outfit with Cicero as his obvious power base. Since he owned the Company that MANUFACTURED the poker machines, he had the approval to not only distibute them with his own crew in their designated area, but also distribute them to Grand Ave. through Vena, 26th Street through Caruso, & Chicago Heights through the Capo down there. If he wins his Appeal, that’s what his role will be out on the street. That’s the way the Outfit has always worked concerning Bookmaking, Poker Machines, Union activity, Bribery & Murder. It’s an Organized Cartel built upon partnerships for a common goal.

      • Horsey F@rt

        Thanks, the Don. It is interesting to note that Marcello mentions “This Guy’s Brother” a few times. By the way, I think the “Cozzo” from Grand Ave you mentioned earlier was probably V. James Cozzo -aka- “Jimmy” Cozzo. 

        In a lot of ways, I think Marcello was the Outfit’s last chance to be the kind of force in Chicago that it used to be. I’m surprised that after Family Secrets, Sarno became #1 on the street with Cataudella as his #2. I wonder why it didn’t go to Grand Avenue or 26th Street. Both of the top guys in those crews are older than Sarno. Maybe Warmbir (Suntimes) was off base when he wrote that Toots was giving Sarno a cut of 26th’s profits. (Interestingly, in that same article Warmbir writes that DiFronzo was arming Sarno & Cataudella.) I wonder what will happen when Mickey M gets out of prison. Speaking of, I think Jimmy Marcello has a good a chance as any of winning his appeal. There’s been entire articles written about it, but there was no physical evidence tying him to his crimes.

        • Horsey F@rt

          Joe, 

          Do you think it’s even plausible that DiFronzo was arming Cicero and 26th St? If DiFronzo shelved himself and his whole crew, why would he want to get involved in the day-to-day stuff?

          • Dear Horse…,
            If DiFronzo was arming Cicero, he was not doing it directly. There are a couple of guys still around that DiFronzo would rely on for extra money. If the right person could bring DiFronzo money, he is going to take it. Shelved, or partially shelved, DiFronzo is not built to turn away money; if it comes from the right person, he will take it (he is very greedy). I do not believe that ‘Fat Ass’ or his ‘boy wonder’ would be able to hand DiFronzo money personally – no way!

          • Horsey F@rt

            Joe, do any of your sources have an opinion about whether or not Mickey M is “made?” Given his responsibilities, it seems like he would be. Do your sources have an opinion on what to expect when he is released–specifically, will he resume ‘the life’ or will he step back and retire?

          • My sources find the subject (is Mickey made) debatable, however, leaning more toward yes than no. He probably should not be made, but his brother likely arranged for it in recent years. Regarding Mickey’s intentions upon his release – as much as I would like to predict the future I simply cannot. I know that friends of his predict that he will return to a life of crime.

          • Allenjames

            Zizzo was mentioned above, any word on that?

          • The Don

            I agree with Joe’s comment 100%. One Street Crew does not arm another Street Crew. That defeats the purpose of the Outfit as an operating Cartel. If DiFronzo is getting SOMETHING from Cicero, it is for a God Damn good reason like maybe suppling the heavy political protection needed. Nobody hands out money freely in that world.

        • The Don

          Horsey,  Remember, Sarno was only the ‘Acting Top Boss’. The real Top Boss of Cicero and Day to Day Boss was Marcello from prison. Toots was absolutely giving Sarno a cut of 26th Street’s profits because Cicero SUPPLIES THE POKER MACHINES. All the crews are partners with Cicero. The only crew that would be the exception is Elmwood Park by choice. Jimmy Cozzo was the guy I was talking about previously. As far as Mickey Marcello is concerned, despite some of his short comings that Joe Fosco has correctly mentioned in the past, Mickey is made because his brother arraigned it. Remember also, succesion of Street Crew power is not an automatic thing, and sometimes the power is taken more than given. The Outfit is not a legitimate Corporation with stock holders who vote on everything.

    • Horsey F@rt

      Joe,

      I am just curious if “This Guy” has ever been a way to reference DiFronzo or whoever the Outfit’s top boss is at the time?

      • Sure, it has. In addition, it has been a way to reference other people of importance or those who have a special purpose.

    • The Don

      Horsey,  I read the rest of the transcripts of  the Marcello Brothers last night for my own entertainment. The transcripts of the later conversations in 2003 talk about something very important on a business level concerning the Cicero Street Crew. Mickey Marcello, the Crew Underboss, is explaining to Jimmy, The Boss, that in their territory alone they have 44 spots. What Mickey is afraid of, is that out of the 44 spots that at least 10 are not going to stand up, meaning, talk to the Feds about the  ‘Outs’.  The Outs are what make the Poker Machines illegal gambling. ‘Outs’ are the payoffs to the customers. There has to be occasional payouts to the customers, or hardly anyone would ever play the machines.  Jimmy says it would be Mickey’s word against the bar owners. Mickey says that’s true but it’s tough when you have 10 fucking guys pointing their finger at you with the same story. The machines have a device in them that gives a read out of the amount of revenue. I can’t remember if there is also a read out of how much was won by the customers. However, the bar owner is in charge of paying the wins to the customers. I know this for a fact. At the end of the week, a soldier from the Crew comes by and makes the collection paying the Bar owner 50% of the net revenue. Mickey suggested that they start leasing the machines to the bar owners more often and not have to worry about the payouts to the customers. It would be less money, but safer.  Jimmy says to his brother ‘Do what you have to Do’. The part I’m not sure about is if there are a grand total of 44 spots in their territory, or if the Feds are only investigating 44 spots and simply haven’t located the rest. I would say that Poker Machines are the biggest money maker for the Outfit.  

      • My late dear friend Buddy Ciotti was the owner of an amusement company that provided the largest number of routes for video poker machines than any other Outfit associated amusement company (Joey DeVita was his silent partner, along with the Bastones, who were in the right position to kick upstairs to DiFronzo). I was extremely aware of nearly every detail of his criminal case after his indictment. His indictment put him out of business as far as I am aware. I read the hundreds of pages drafted by the U.S. Attorney’s Office. I was privy to some of his conversations with his attorneys, which included the brilliant Alex Salerno. I learned two interesting things. Buddy was facing stiffer charges because he leased his machines. If he would have owned them it would not have been as bad for him (I do not recall the reason, sorry). I realize that Mickey’s intention of leasing poker machines to bar owners is a little different. The other thing that I learned about Buddy’s experience was the fact that his machines had countdown buttons on them is what served as the smoking gun (in addition to the grand jury testimony of the bartenders, managers and bar owners). If a poker machine does not have a countdown button, it would make the governments efforts exceedingly difficult. Therefore, Mickey’s purported idea to lease the machines to the bar owners, for a healthy rental fee is very clever (it would eliminate the Outfits role in using the countdown button). However, the government would make a case out of Mickey leasing a machine that is equipped with a countdown button, which would only serve for one purpose, gambling. In other words, one will never be able to make a business out of beating the FBI/government, so why bother in the first place?

        • The Don

          Joe,  What was the name of the Bastone’s/Ciotti/ Devita’s Amusement Company? In which suburb was it located? Melrose Park?

          • They had several different companies over the years. I believe ‘All Games’ and ‘Lucky 8’ are the ones that seem to stick in my memory.

          • The Don

            The Marcello’s owned M&M Amusement in Cicero. Did the Marcello’s and the Bastone’s each own Poker Machine Companies at the same time? Where were ‘ All Games’ & ‘ Lucky 8 ‘ located? 

          • Buddy, et al, was in the poker machine business for 17-years, ending with an indictment in the very late 1990s. He was for the most part the front man for nearly all of those years. He was based in Melrose Park. His gaming ventures provided all or parts of the following towns with poker machines over the years (the list indicates only what I can recall):

            Melrose Park
            Stone Park
            Northlake
            Hillside
            Elmwood Park
            River Grove
            Des Plaines
            Northwest side of Chicago
            Franklin Park
            Schiller Park

            Buddy was like a father to me. Rudy Fratto hated Ciotti because of jealousy, which is genuinely the initial reason Rudy was against me. It would eat at Rudy that he was not involved in Buddy’s action. Reason being, Buddy was with people that kicked into DiFronzo. In other words, DiFronzo would not include Rudy in Ciotti’s racket.

            For a number of years Rudy took shots at me in many ways. Today, I have him to thank for being apart from a bunch of inappropriate people.

          • The Don

            I agree. Ciotti was wth the Bastone Brothers who were either part of the extended Elmwood Park Crew or they were made guys who were always direct with the Top Bosses previously and DiFronzo inherited them. Either way, no need for Fratto to be involved. Joe, do you know when the Marcello’s started M & M Amusement Co?That’s all I’m really wondering about. Maybe they had their Company the same time as Ciotti etc? I’m wondering if the Marcello Brothers took over after Ciotti went to jail or if their M&M Amusement Company co-existed with Ciottie etc. and they simply supplied Machines to a DIFFERENT area. Your thoughts?   

          • I am not sure when the Marcello’s had their company. I could look into it. However, I do know that when Buddy was released from prison in July of 2002, a power change had taken place, pretty much leaving him in a lessor position with the Outfit. In addition, Carmen Bastone had recently died at the time, which was Buddy’s main clout. Prior to the Bastones being Buddy’s main source of power, his sister was the longtime wife of Tommy Eboli, brother of Louie The Mooch. The Mooch was very much Buddy’s initial Outfit clout source, which his sisters marriage helped a bit. It was Buddy’s physical capabilities that mainly intrigued Louie. I would agree, DiFronzo inherited the Bastones.

          • Horsey F@rt

            There was a Tommy “Ryan” Eboli who was Louie’s father, and then a Tommy Eboli Jr. who was his brother. Senior was also the acting boss of the Genovese Family prior to his murder.

          • Right.

  • Merlin Tenderpony

    Is it possible that the Outfit had one of its made guys
    pretend to be snitch in order to deliberately misinform the FBI? For kicks I recently
    got out a few Roemer books and skimmed through them. It had been years since I
    read any of them. The whole time I was thinking that Roemer has got to be the
    most debunked crimefighter-turned-writer of all time. I think this is either
    because his informants led him to believe false things on purpose, or his ego was
    so big that it got in the way of conducting accurate investigations.  One of the reasons I think the Outfit could
    have created a bad snitch is because of something that was said on here a few
    months ago. The double murder of the Spilotros should have been solved the following
    day because of how many people knew about how it happened. It involved a well
    over a dozen guys, and we’ve come to find out since Family Secrets many others
    had knowledge of it (before and after). Whether he was there or not, Roemer’s
    top echelon informant didn’t give him anything on it. Initially, on a live
    television news program, Roemer stated that he thought that the Spilotros lammed
    it because they knew they were in trouble with the Outfit. When they turned up
    dead a few days later, he looked stupid. Then, he wrote the Spilotro book, and
    gave a detailed account how they were forced at gunpoint (even giving the
    calibers of the pistols) into the Indiana cornfield where they were killed.
    Then Family Secrets happened, and the world found out what really happened,
    making him look silly again. Roemer’s informant also claimed to have attended
    the meeting where JB formally anointed Joe Ferriola as the Outfit’s top boss.
    Since Ferriola was never the boss, this could not have happened. I’m not trying
    to make a thread about how inaccurate Roemer was. It’s been clear for a while
    now that his books and theories have not aged well at all. Even his fictional
    mob books like the Accardo Vs. Bonanno novel are ridiculous. My point is that
    it seems as if a member of the Outfit gave the FBI bad information on purpose.

    • Dear Merlin,
      It is no secret that Joe B and Jackie Cerone (the lawyer, son of the gangster) used to meet with Roemer. My former friend Bill Daddono III shared with me his father’s belief that Joe B was an informant (if he was, perhaps he was a bad informant. In my opinion, I cannot accept that Joe B informed). Such theory could be self-serving, as I know that the Daddonos have harbored negative feelings for the Aiuppa/Cerone faction (including Joe B) ever since their idol, mentor and leader Sam Giancana was murdered. I am sure that the Daddonos know that if Willie Potatoes was a free man in the final years of his life, he would have been knocked down along with Mooney’s other guys (English & DeStefano).
      Getting back to your idea. Yes, it is possible that Roemer was fed a bad snitch. However, I think he was blinded by his own stupidity stemming from thinking that he was brilliant.

      • Merlin Tenderpony

        Roemer’s best informant ever, who (supposedly) was not only made but also  in a leadership position, was nicknamed “Sporting Goods” by the FBI. I’ve wondered about this for a while. Maybe the informant’s  initials were “S.G.” as in “sporting goods.” Maybe the informant was in some line of work dealing with athletic equipment. Maybe “sporting goods” refers to baseball bats, as in Joe Batters. Who knows? Roemer’s snitch was so ineffective that it’s probably not worth it for me to try to figure out who it was. I’ve never considered JB as a possible snitch, but it’s interesting to note that he only ever spent a night or two in jail and that today’s Outfit is descended from Accardo and his guys instead of Giancana’s faction. (Giancana was Roemer’s bitter enemy.) Roemer was Accardo’s fanboy. Come to think of it, Roemer visited Jackie Cerone in prison and has spoken glowingly of his son, the lawyer.

        • Why on Earth would Accardo and the Cerones talk to Roemer unless some mutual benefits were expected?
          I could say with certainty that I know Jackie Cerone (the lawyer) is a proponent of law enforcement. He had me arrested in 2005 and sat on the witness stand spilling his guts about me for 2-days in 2006 (mostly fabrication).
          As far as nicknames, other Outfit higher-ups commonly referred to Aiuppa as the ‘fisherman.”

          • Merlin Tenderpony

            Didn’t Roemer, much to the confusion of his peers in the FBI, stand as a character witness to one of  the Kumerow as a personal favor to JB? It was during some kind of legal inquest into the unions.

          • It sounds familiar. However, i do not recall exactly.

          • The Don

            Yes.  That’s how in love Roemer was with his wanna be boyfriend Accardo.

          • Tony

            Roemer also made a call to Pete Rozelle just before Eric Kumerow came out of Ohio St. in the NFL draft. He had heard the kid was going to be blacklisted because of his relation to Accardo and felt it was unfair.

        • Rick

          In a post I made earlier I mistakenly wrote that Lenny Patrick was “Sporting Goods.”   You’re right.  It was Ralph Pierce.  In an article in Informer magazine Edmond Valin dissects and deconstructs Roemer and comes to this conclusion.  So you are absolutely correct.

      • Merlin Tenderpony

        Chuckie Nicoletti was gunned down too in 1977. Chuckie was a 42 and aligned with Mooney since before his Outfit days. Accardo/Aiuppa/Cerone really cleaned house with regard to Mooney’s faction. 

    • The Don

      Merlin,  I agree with your theory about bad information given on purpose to Roemer 100%. Roemer’s ego was bigger than the Sears Building. Deep down inside, Roemer wished he had been a made guy in the Outfit. If Accardo would have permitted it, Roemer would have proposed marriage to him, that’s how in love Roemer was with Accardo. Maybe Accardo was the one giving him bad information knowing how in love Roemer was with him. That would have been an excellent move on the part of the Outfit.

    • Horsey F@rt

      I’ve read Roemer. Two funny (creepy) things stick out in my mind. In one book he explains how Accardo’s favorite meal was “spaghetti” with “tomato sauce” and “Italian” sausage (as if he needs to clarify those details for any of his readers). In the same book he later says that it’s his favorite meal, too. (Money see, monkey do.) The other thing is that Roemer is the only one that I’m aware of who believes and repeatedly states that Tony Accardo was one of the Valentines Day Massacre gunman. There’s absolutely no evidence to back up that claim. There are historians who believe it’s possible but not plausible. If it were true, it would have meant that Accardo was 21 at the time. (Sam and Chuck Giancana said that same thing about Mooney, lol.) Roemer claims he heard Accardo tell the whole story to a group of younger guys over a wiretap. Yeah, right. 

      Roemer started getting a boner over Joe Bonanno near the end of his career, too. 

      • On rare instances, Joe B would talk about Al to his ‘guys’. You could hear a pin drop when he would say Al’s name. Joe B did not stay out of prison his entire life sitting around confessing to murders. LOL

        • Horsey F@rt

          I once saw a very old photo of Capone, Ricca, and a baby-faced Accardo all decked out in tuxedos for Ricca’s wedding. (Capone and Accardo were groomsman.) I find it hard to believe that men so closely aligned with Capone would be able to resist storytelling later on in life. At the same  time, I cannot imagine Accardo (who is an iconic gangster himself) spilling anything to Roemer. Maybe Joe B was able to sense that Roemer was awestruck by him and used it to his advantage. If he was a nice guy to Roemer and treated him as a friend rather than foe, maybe he was ensuring that Roemer would never dig too deep into matters pertaining to Accardo. If Roemer accomplished anything in Chicago in his career, it was putting away Teets and Milwaukee Phil. Besides that, he was just a pain in Mooney’s ass and an Accardo cheerleader.

          • Your comments about Phil and Teets lend credence to the Daddonos belief that Accardo was an informant.

          • The Don

            Joe,  It’s a fascinating point. I could really go either way on it. There’s a 50% chance Accardo fed his admirer Roemer bad information and it’s a 50% chance he fed Roemer good information, especially it it involved TAYLOR ST. men. The same 50/50 speculation exists for John DiFronzo also.

          • You have a good point.

          • Dom

            Horsey: I seen the same photo of Ricca’s wedding that you have mentioned. Al Capone and his sister Mafalda stood up in the wedding. I believe the person misidentified as Accardo in that picture is actually Charlie Fischetti, supposedly a Capone cousin.  

      • James

        I don’t think Roemer is the ONLY author to say Accardo may have been involved. He certainly may have been and it does make some sense.

        Accardo was a protege of Jack McGurn. The Circus Cafe boys, who I believe Accardo was involved with in his early days had the ammo and disposed of one of the cars.

        Im not saying he was a shooter, as I believe most of them to be the same crew that hit Yale. Same gun used in both crimes.

        Given JBs age at the time, his association with the top enforcer at the time, and his Circus Cafe connections It is more than plausible

      • Allenjames

        The guys who walked in 1st as cops, where Jewish guys from Detroit. Those who walked in after could be any Chicago guys of any age. I think JB could be 1 of them….

    • Rick

      Two of Roemer’s informants, beside Richard Cain, were Butch Blasi and Lenny Patrick (Sporting Goods).

  • Letemrde

    Joe great to see you back on the articles again, and the don.  This is the stuff i miss.  This Totso guy wow what a chooch how many times do we gotta hear who and which guy he knows.  Geez and i thought i was a wannabe.  Someone referenced the Cozzo’s, now i can comment here im a southside southburbs guy but Vince “jimmy” who filled in for the clown when he was away both recently and in 93, he is now dead “natural.”  Phil is in the can down in Terre haute and wont be out for a few more years.  He was in a FDC facility in Mass. for awhile when his dad was alive.  vincent was the go between for that one casino in Curaco or wherever before it closed.  Phil got wrapped up in a mickey mouse thing up in Buffalo grove.  Is that knuckled head Fratto out yet and are him an ma barker in a trailer park somewhere or what.   Joe your friend George Colucci who youve referenced before was he the one Joey was lammed out with, so does his testimony that insulted you stem from that.  Anyway hope your hanging tough my friend and get a good laugh outta all these childish arguments that been thrown your way, theyre not even worth sweating over.  Stay tough

    • Dear let,
      Thank you for the kind words. No, Joe L was not hiding out with George. However, George might have been aware of Joe’s location. A number of people were. Everyone in Joe’s family knew where he was. In fact, his sister, who worked for Dr. Giacchino at the time, told us that she saw her brother all the time.

    • PS,
      Yes, Rudy Fratto is out of prison. He has been out for several weeks. He goes out on the town and is seen by others.

  • Letemrde

    Oh and 1 more havent run into you at Johnny’s, but before Trattoria peppino sold in 2007 or 08 dont really remember.  I was a regular there, was Joe i think that was his name the owner anybody or just a normal legit guy.

    • Dear Let,
      I do not know who owns Peppino’s. I could look into it for you. I do recall that a grandson of my late friend, Charlie Nicosia, used to be the manager there for a while. I believe it is was Sam Nicosia.

  • Logic

    Joe–any comments on Builder Sam Zitella?  He’s been in the Tribune previously accused of investing in real estate with the DiFronzos and also using D&P on his job sights.  I saw Sam’s house (estate) in South Barrington and was blown away…obviously he’s largely successful but how linked up to the Outfit is he?

    • Zitella is close with the DiFronzo brothers. The DiFronzos love being connected to rich people, Sam is no doubt one of the DiFronzos many wealthy marks. Sam is not a gangster, but he does not have to be a gangster, he is close with the Outfits hierarchy. As wealthy as Zitella appears, driving around in his orange Bentley and living in a home as large as a high school, he is certainly feeling the affect of today’s economy. I have received reports that suggest Sam is scaling back on his spending, liquidating various holdings and being a bit more realistic about money these days. According to a source, Johnny and Pete are laughing behind his back at the financial stupidity Sam created in his life. As much as the DiFronzos love to be around rich people, the brothers get a major kick out of seeing people who throw money around take a spill, even if the unfortunate individual is one of their marks.

  • Dear Horse…,

    My dad had a relationship with Mooney.

    Paul and Teets are not entombed anywhere near Joe B. I do not know where Teets is entombed or buried, at least I do not recall. I know that Paul is entombed in a shrine with his wife and son Anthony (which is located on the lower level of Queen of Mausoleum in Hillside, Illinois). I have scanned the other names on the wall near Paul several times over the years and I would remember if I saw Teets there. Joe is entombed in the same mausoleum, on the main floor in a room exclusively for the Accardo family. His wife is the only family member with him right now. I have relatives entombed in said mausoleum; therefore, whenever I go to visit my family, I also visit some of my fathers close friends, such as Paul and Charlie Nicosia and my friend George Colucci, who are all entombed in the same mausoleum. I am familiar with Joe’s entombment location because I brought Willie Messino to visit him once (Willie would have killed 100-men for Joe B).

    • Horsey F@rt

      My mistake, then. Maybe that’s just popular lore. All my family members are in Mt. Carmel and All Saints. 

      Joe, how close were Mooney and your dad? Did Armando’s other kids have any exposure to Mooney? 

      • I do not know how close my father was to Mooney. as for my fathers older sons, no, they were not close to Mooney. My oldest brother was running around at a family wake when he was a kid and ran right into Joe B. My father wanted to kick his ass. lol

      • Pagliaccio

        It is popular folklore that started on a ex cop’s blog/website column…The guy’s name is Andy Murcia.. and the folklore is starting to wind its way into books because nobody checks facts anymore.

  • The Don

    Merlin & Horsey,  Do not forget that there were some Taylor St. men who were still alive when Auippa became the Top Boss and were not eliminated because they fit in with the new changing of the guard. Turk Torello, Angelo LaPietra, Skids Caruso belonged originally to the extended Taylor St. Crew. Also, Joey Lombardo, Tony Spilotro & Dominic Blasi originally belonged to the extended Taylor St. Crew.  I doubt that Battaglia was close to Accardo.  My relative gave me the impression that Accardo was never close with any of the hard core Taylor St. men like Battaglia, Bucciere, Daddano, Potenza, DeStefano, Alderisio, English, Niccoletti, Caifano, etc. According to my source  who was there and lived it, Cerone, Auippa, & even Accardo to a lesser degree, were always a little uneasy around the men I mentioned. Joe, what is your opinion about this subject. I’ll bet it’s the same as mine. 

  • Horsey F@rt

    I don’t really
    believe Accardo was a Whitey Bulger-style snitch. No way in hell. I think that Roemer
    was picking up a lot of dirt on the Outfit through illegal wiretaps. He and
    other G-men from that era admitted to using illegal wires all the time. So any
    intelligence that they gathered was totally inadmissible but still useful. They
    would take the information gathered via the illegal wires and throw it in the
    faces of gangsters. Roemer claims to have thwarted a few murders by confronting
    JB directly with this kind of info. “We know you’re going to kill [X], if
    you go ahead with it, we’ll prosecute you,” etc.

     

    I believe it’s
    possible, though, that Roemer and company could have been guilty of sins of
    omission, meaning that they might have learned about murders that were being
    planned but turned a blind eye if they didn’t like the target, or if the
    target’s murder would benefit the FBI in some way. I think it’s entirely possible that the
    FBI had some kind of prior knowledge of Mooney and the Spilotro’s murders. Roemer
    hated both of those guys with a passion. There’s some truth in that famous quote, “Battle not with monsters,
    lest ye become a monster.” Jaded, macho G-men are not any more moral or ethical
    than the gangsters they’re investigating. Look up “H. Paul Rico” for a really
    great example.

     

    • Good point. You know, there were plenty of Outfit guys that really thought Joe Nick was the boss. It was only the inner circle surrounding the real boss that knew otherwise, and Joe Nick. Therefore, it could have been one or more of 100 different Outfit guys telling Roemer that Joe Nick was the boss. Again, the Outfit guys did not even know that Joe Nick was the front man for the real boss.

      • Atothe_

        Who was the real boss?

        • While many thought Joe Nick was the boss, it was really the Carlisi (boss) and DiFronzo (underboss) faction that ruled the Outfit.

    • Horsey F@rt

      Joe, I’m not sure why, but WordPress is doing some funny things with the way its displaying some of the comments. I’ve noticed this with other users at some point, too. I’m not sure why my comment came out this way, but I know it’s not the way I type it.

      • As we go further down the chain of responses, each message becomes exceedingly narrow. I do not like it, but I do not know what to do about it.

    • James

      The wire taps the FBI had in place were not illegal per se. The only reason they were ever removed was because LBJ was terrified of what Hoover might find out about his dealings during his rise to power in Texas. The taps were inadmissable, however no one could be prosecuted for their placement as they were approves by attorney general kennedy himself.

      Also (and maybe you werent implying this) Roemer was retired before Spilotro was knocked down.

    • James

      Roemer claimed to have three informants, correct? One being Dick Cain (who would feed him self serving bullshit) any other theories on the other two?

      Regarding Cain, i have heard that two of the hitters were Aleman and Lumpy, any credence? I have also heard that the police were invloved in as much as they left the vicinity moments before the hit took place.

      Regarding Joe L, a couple years ago I had a buddy who lived near Ohio and Western. I would walk over to see him and would pass Joe Ls house (didnt realize it at the time) acrossmthe street within a block or two I would frequently see a man sitting outside his place every night. Fiftyish, house is a corner place, plain brick, dogs in the yard, plain solid brown door. He seemed to be keeping an eye on something.

      Also, a bar around the corner on from my buddy called The Couch seemed very connected.

      Just curious if I just have a vivid imagination or if i am perceptive (i knew Richards Bar was connected within 30 seconds of walking in, and i was clueless as to that areas history at the time)

  • Merlin Tenderpony
    • What comedic production company produced this? Very good stuff!

  • Merlin Tenderpony

    Hey Joe,

    Any idea why in its official press release for Operation Family Secrets, The US Department of Justice for the Northern District of Illinois thanked FBI Organized Crime units in Miami, Pittsburgh, and Detroit for their cooperation in the various investigations? Do you know of any Outfit interests or outposts in those places?

    • Dear Merlin,

      My guess would be that it was mostly a lot of fluff; however, it is very likely that Chicago based federal agents checked with other agents in the formerly well-known Outfit sister cities to simply see if there were any potentially helpful leads. I am not aware of any current Outfit dealings in those cities.

    • The Don

      Merlin,  I think there were a couple of older retired made guys who were basically shelved that went to Florida. One was Marshall Caifano who I believed died in maybe 2005. Old made guy from Taylor St. Nobody actively stationed in Detroit or Pittsburgh. Those cities have their own Mafia Groups, especially Detroit. The cities that had active made guys stationed in the past were usually out west. Las Vegas, Los Angeles & San Diego. There was talk about  Louie Fratto being in Des Moines years ago. Maybe Joe knows if that was true. He was an uncle of Rudy Fratto.

      • Yes, Lou was in Des Moines. How was that related to Family Secrets?

        • The Don

          It wasn’t.

  • The Don

    Horsey,  You’re a goodfella! No problem. I’ve noticed that you’ve learned more about how the Outfit is structured and how it generally works in the last few months. Hell, you even had a pretty good read on Marcello and the general structure of the Cicero Crew. My congradulations! Remember one thing that I heard many times over the past years and that is this: To truly understand the general structure of the Outfit and how it really operates and why it was the single most powerful Mafia Group in the country, you have to always go back to the Street Crews. The Street Crew is the backbone of the Outfit. Then, you have to understand how the Street Crews work together under a single leadership to attain a certain goal. They are like five fingers on a single hand. If you look up the word ‘syndicate’  in the dictionary, that is what The Outfit truly is. The Street Crew is what makes certain individuals powerful. Not the other way around. When Giancana lost his Crew he lost his power base. When Jack Cerone, Top Boss of the Outfit for many years, lost the respect of HIS STREET CREW, he lost his power. Had he not died of  natural causes when released from prison, I believe he would have been killed. Joey Auippa could NEVER make that kind of a move without the cooperation of some of the key men in Cerone’s OWN CREW. Lesson to be learned if you’re a Capo:  treat your men well, don’t be cheap & stingy, make sure all the made men are retaing a good portion of the money coming in. This ensures power & safety. Now, just hope you don’t go to jail for a long time which is something that usually happens anyway.

  • interesting

  • The way I see it, the late Willie Messino (who I love for being the retired gangster that I knew) was rejected by the Taylor Street faction of the Outfit in the 30s. He had locked horns with most of them when he was a kid (I am repeating what he told me). He went away to prison in the 30s. It was during his prison term that began in the 30s that caused his connection with Joe Gags, who was already with Jackie Cerone, who was under Tony Cap back then. Upon Willie and Gags release, Gags brought Willie in with him and Jack (this too is what Willie told me).

    • Black Angelo

      Okay that Willie story was insightful I heard variations of the same thing throughout the years. But that sounds most accurate. But Tony Cap died in the early 1950s. anyhow insightful information and Joe Gags most def had Willie M. Some guys for one reason or another just was grabed by a guy and he went where that individual or his overseer went.. a good example would be Angelo Lapietra laying claim to the Calabrese brothers.. who went from Cicero to 26th. But Frank C still had parternerships with Elmwood Park guys. What happended to Marco D might be similiar what happened to Willie Messino. But vice versa. You claim Jackie Cerone did not like Marco. I believe that somewhat. And I know Marco never ever-ever lived in Elmwood Park (like all of Jackies Guys). He lived in Cicero for decades and then South Barrington from about 1979 or so till 1990. Marco was with the “wild bunch” but had more power than those guys because he was direct with O’Brien.. Marco made money and Obrien was greedy. So that was match made in Hell. which would come in handy for most of his (Marco’s) life and especially in 1985 or so when Obrien gave him that real nice social spa/club in the heart of Elmwood Park.

      • Please explain your point behind this statement, “But Tony Cap died in the early 1950s. anyhow…”

        • Black Angelo

          Disregard it JF, I re-read what you said and how Jackie C belonged to Tony Cap. I was just saying when he passed Willie M was already made and definatly with Elmwood Park.

    • The Don

      I agree 100% with that analysis. And, to add a further note to Outfit Street Crew History, because Willie ruined his chances of becoming a made man in the Extended Taylor Street Crew which was the Power Base for the whole fucking Oufit for many years, my relative never was part of Taylor St. either even though he was born and raised there. When Willie became a made man under Gagliano & Cerone, he brought my relative in as one of his soldiers, much to the regret of my relative, who secretly wanted to be part of Taylor St. and absolutely worshipped all the made men who were part of that vey powerful extended Crew. No other Street Crew ever reached that kind of dominance and stature in Chicago. The Taylor Street Crew under Giancana & his top Advisor, Paul Ricca, were like the BEATLES of organized crime. Never be equaled.

      • I believe the reason Willie was happy when his faction (Aiuppa/Cerone) knocked down Mooney had to do with his age old resentment against Taylor Street for rejecting him in the 30s. As it worked out, Willie was with the surviving faction.

  • I think I forgot to pass the message. I am sorry.

  • Black Angelo

    No JF did not pass me a message lol. Good to see you and the others back on the threads. Your defitantly knowledgeable and have a good “close” source. To answer your question. Marco was doing whatever the hell he wanted to do because Joey Obrien gave him the green light. You name it…. running high stake poker games outside his territory, collecting street tax from guys from wherever the hell, putting as much money on the streets to who-ever (Frank Calabrese Sr also had a green light to put as much money on the streets also only a select few got this honor). Marco pretty much did whatever the hell he wanted. And Marco was never a soldier under DiFronzo. From 1958 to 1985 or so direct with Obrien or extended Cicero. And then Obrien gave him Elmwood Park and Marcos vast earning abilities went to another man who likes money one John DiFronzo. Difronzo did have Elmwood Park but became a Top Boss with Black Sam. Marco then became apart of extended Elmwood Park because he was essentially direct with Johnny D.  Marco is in Johnny’s inner circle because they do go b ack to childhood and Marco has made him alot of money. Not to mention Marco has access to alot of capable guys for Johnny D (you know what I mean).

    • The Don

      I absolutely know what you mean. Marco is a very strong made guy in my opinion and is the premier Bookmaking specialist in the entire Outfit. I do not believe that the Elmwood Park Crew is completely deactivated as much as they want everyone to believe. They have stepped back only partially. From what I remember, my relative said in the year 2005 or so, that all the Street Crews are partners with Elmwood Park & Cicero. Elmwood Park more for Bookmaking & Cicero more for Poker Machines. Grand Ave., 26th Street & Chicago Heights lay off all the bets they don’t want to Elmwood Park (Marco). Grand Ave., 26th Street and Chicago Heights get their Poker Machines from Cicero. Based upon the information about Marco being direct with Auippa before the 1980’s, it’s possible Auippa made him. However, Marco may have been a high level associate with Auippa and then instead of being made by Cerone, He had to wait until Cerone was gone and then Johnny made him. If Push comes to shove, I believe Difronzo made him in the early 1990’s. I don’t want to start a big debate, but that’s my opinion based upon my great source. He indicated to me in a non direct way that it was in the early 1990’s. He said Johnny made Marco ‘his man’. To me, based upon all the dialogue I had with my relaltive over the years, that means DiFronzo ‘made’ him before he went away in 1994. Sometimes in the past, a making ceremony only involved a few guys present. It wasn’t always a big broadcasted party. 

      • Dear The Don,
        I believe we both have great sources on Chicago Outfit matters. However, I would like to politely remind you that your great source was no longer as close to the inner circle that surrounded the Cerone/DiFronzo faction in the 1990s, because of his fallout with Willie. My great source was never as closely connected to said inner circle then at that time. Therefore, I lend more credence to my source on the issue regarding the status of whether Marco was ‘made’.
        In the late 70s and 80s, Marco’s main job (other than running a big bookmaking office with Johnny DiFronzo, Joe Andriacchi and Lee Magnafichi – for Jack Cerone) was babysitting the alcoholic son of Outfit boss Jack Cerone.
        Lastly, DiFronzo established a reputation for inducting the least amount of members into the Outfit than any other boss (this would support my assertion that DiFronzo did not induct Marco).

        • Black Angelo

          On most FBI Chicago Outfit hierarchy charts in the 1970s they are almost accurate. Let me explain they have Marco D’Amico, Joe Nick and Rocky Infelise listed as lieutenants but Turk Torello as a top boss and Johnny D as a Lieutenant (almost accurate under Cerone). Turk was more powerful than Marco, Joe Nick, Johnny D and Rocky. And Johnny DiFronzo very well may have been a soldier but if Cerone was a top boss DiFronzo would have been capo of Elmwood Park a strong lieutenant at the very least (especially in the late 70s early 80s). I do know throughout the mid 1960s and 70s. Marco, Joe Nick and Johnny DiFronzo where basically equals in terms of power. Because of who Marco and Joe Nick was direct with (Obrien) and because who Johnny was direct with (Cerone) made them “Equals” in rank from the mid 1960s till late 70s inasmuch. But their was a shift obviously around the late 1970s and 1985/86 and Johnny got a big promotion and Marco via Taylor Street was sent out to EP to fill in for Johnny and become part of EP extended crew. Turk was right on par with Joey Lombardo in that same era (60s/70s) in terms of power.. Very very high ranking. Hence why they was at the infamous “Last Supper Dinner” at the Sicilian in 1976. Below is the threat assessment the FBI conduted in 2002 on behalf of Nick Calabrese. It has all the high ranking members of the Chicago Mob and where they live or what prison they where in at the time. At the time (2002) Jimmy Marcello, Frank Calabrese and Marco D’Amico where all at Milan and being watched and recorded during visits. http://dig.abclocal.go.com/wls/documents/threat%20assessment.pdf

          • I appreciate your opinion and the credible Outfit charts, but I remain strong in believing that Marco was not ‘made’.

        • Horsey F@rt

          Your last point is a good one. One recurring theme in the Family Secrets trial was that he seemed to involve his guys as little as possible. He attended meetings alone, went to the 1983 making ceremony in Hillside alone, and was allegedly the sole Elmwood Park participant in the Spilotro killings (based on testimony). You have to get him credit–he’s very smart. It’s almost as if he was preparing for a huge RICO case like Family Secrets for years in advance by isolating and insulating himself. He has foresight. And aside from Nick Calabrese, all the guys who probably could have hurt him with testimony were either long deceased (Joe Gagliano, Cerone, Willie, etc.), weren’t indicted or subpoena’d, or didn’t implicate him during the trial. Very smart. Very lucky. 

          • As much as I hate to admit it, DiFronzo is brilliant. In addition, he is a criminal and a killer. He should be recognized for his criminal mind more than his brilliant mind. He should not be considered an idol to anyone who is normal. As much as I (and others) wish the justice system finally does something about him, in reality, he will likely die of old age as a free man.

          • Horsey F@rt

            You mentioned before somewhere that Michael is confident that there will be a Family Secrets Part II. Despite John Kass’ repeated assertion that something BIG is brewing in the way of a federal case and is headed in the direction of the Chicago Outfit, I am starting to doubt it for a few reasons. First, unless things have changed, “sequels” usually occur within a year or two of the initial case, and it’s now going on 3-years since the F.S. sentencing. Second, the government would most  likely need another made guy or highly placed associated to flip and provide the kind of information and testimony given by Nick Calabrese. If they had such a cooperating witness, I’m sure there would be buzz by now. Granted, the government has been bragging for years now that they have a top tier guy as a dry snitch. But a dry snitch is not the same as a cooperating witness, and the whole thing could be a b.s. mind game to begin with by the feds. At this point, I would be surprised if there is an Operation Family Secrets Part II is what I’m saying.

          • Some believe that a Family Secrets II is on its way. I suppose if we wait long enough there will be another Outfit indictment at some point. I now have mixed feelings on the matter.

  • Black Angelo

    The Don to add more I forgot to answer another one of your questions. But Turk and Angelo L may vary well been with Taylor St. Especially Turk because Turk and Joe Nick where prodigies of Fat Lennie (Giancana’s best friend). Angelo I believe was always Cicero extended. All three would eventually be extended Cicero and have homes their during the 1960s and 70s. Black Sam also lived in Cicero. But got the capo spot in Melrose Park then Top Boss. Still extended Cicero though if you want to get technical lol.

  • Whostooknow

    Black Angelo,  care to comment on Difronzo’s mental state?  As a person that seemed to be in the know  about Marco; ( from reading your other comments.) You obviously would have some insite in this matter.
    Still it hard to believe that Difronzo is/was capable of running the whole show if he had the extreme mental illness that Joe eludes to.

    • Black Angelo

      I agree with JF that Johnny DiFronzo has some severe mental issues. The fella has testicles hanging from his pick up truck lol. But then again a lot of these guys had extreme mental illness. Turk Torello would smile in your face one minute and then cut your small intestine out of your body in the next minute (that was his thing having your organs hanging out). Some guys like to slit a throat. Turk wants your insides. Joe Nick was a savage.. A real mental case. Black Sam loved violence which is why he enjoyed being in the company of The Hatchet and hearing his stories of brutality. The only issue that I have is that it affects what kind of parent you are. John DiFronzo was a very good father. So what his son died of a drug overdose. That could of happened to Neil Bush (one of George H.W. Bush kids, and one of George W Bush brothers). Nobody would accuse George HW Bush of having a mental illness, but he did have kid (Neil) that abused drugs. Sam DeStefano was a sick puppy. He suffered from mental illness. All three of his kids are teachers. The thing with Johnny and Turk was they knew how to channel their mental illness. They could slice and dice your whole body one minute and then attend their kids Little League game the next day. Johnny’s mental illness helped him in “the life” in fact I would argue. The part of the reason Turk Torello rose so fast in the Outfit at an early age (before his untimely death) was due to the fact Outfit bosses knew he was VERY BRUTAL. I also still believe John DiFronzo was involved in “some” of the Chicago Lipstick Murders. I think while he was committing those mid 1940s burglaries (in which he was doing) he needed to get to another level of euphoria.. So he decided to kill (in other words the burglaries just wasn’t cutting it). Um the ejaculation part of the story. I have know idea honestly about that but who knows what happens to one when he is channeling his rage. The climax may give him that high he likes to have, Thus he is always trying to reach that high by doing bazaar things. Like torture murder. But none the less Johnny DiFronzo, Turk Torello and others where very good fathers. Trust me. Johnny DiFronzo by the way is super smart. He can be a Boss like he is and make cognizant decisions on serious analytical matters. I guess you could compare him to John Gacy, but that is not fair to Johnny. Johnny is better looking than that fat nasty f*ck. If you are going to compare Johnny to a serial killer maybe it should be Ted Bundy. Because Ted Bundy was a genius, a man known for his looks but a stone cold killer also. A charming individual too like Bananas !

  • Teets

    Long time no type, Joe. It’s me, Teets. Grrrreat to see that once again you are back in full force with the articles. I see that the motley crew is back to their old tricks again in the threads (LOL). I was thinking about what you told me about John Matassa Sr. not being the secret leader I thought he was, most likely. There still is the issue of the time he coldcocked Sam Urbana right in the glass jaw, unfortunately. I’m sorry to report that someone told me that Matassa Sr. was in the tradition of roughing up guys just for kicks, guys in the mold of Sam Urbana and poor Dom Cortina. It’s a sad thing that Sam Urbana was indicted with Donald Angelini and some other guys because of some gaming in Maryland. I’m sure that Sam Urbana had no choice but to bust some heads out there (once in a great while) just to keep guys in line. I was hoping you might comment on this, as well as that story about the time that Anthony Accardo whistled in his B-team and they all enjoyed some jug wine under a fancy trellis in his backyard when he lived on Ashland. Anthony Accardo was aware that his B-team guys liked to sit around on their asses while the top guys were out earning, so he called the B-team guys in for some cheap laughs one night when he was bored. Sorry to report that Paul Ricca really got the wrath of an intoxicated Accardo that night, who made Paul strip down to his shorts and then berated him in front of the low level guys. After Anthony Accardo had a few more glasses of wine, he started referring to Paul Ricca as “Small Paul” and explained to his B-team guys that he called Ricca “Small Paul” because he had a “small one.” Ricca had no choice but to stand there and take it, unfortunately. Then Anthony Accardo berated a disgraced Willie and commanded him to go inside and see if the Accardo children needed anything. Willie was all too happy to bend over backward for the great Anthony Accardo. The B-team never had it so good as that legendary night. I hope they enjoyed laughing like hyenas along with Accardo while it lasted because the next day Accardo either had no recollection of it or pretended it never happened. No one ever brought it up to him out of fear for their lives. Keep on keepin’ on (LOL). Teets.

    • No way, now how, never, did Joe disrespect Paul, not even in the slightest way, not on once (not while Paul was alive)!

      • Tony

        I agree with Joe. That story is wayyyyy off base. Joe batters NEVER would have dared talk to Ricca in such a manner.

      • Horsey F@rt

        Joe, speaking of JB’s house, I was listening to a tape of Bobby Hitz and that Don Herion guy discussing the infamous burglary on some radio show. One of them asserted that the thing about the burglary that really sent JB off the deep end was that one of the burglars took a sh*t on his bed where he and his wife slept. The burglary itself was enough to earn the suspected perpetrators their death sentences, but the defecation thing is the reason they were all excessively brutalized with their throats severely slashed. I had never heard this before. Is it true? Do you know any other interesting details about the burglary or the retaliation?

        • Before I respond, could you clarify who the men on the radio show are? Thanks.

    • The Don

      Teets,  Keep taking those huge amounts of drugs. They seem to be working well on you. I am actually embarrassed for you that you would have the nerve to submit such a ridiculous story. Unless, of course, the story was meant to be a joke.   

  • I am sorry for mixing up the time frame of your relatives issues with Willie.
    Neither of us could honestly state Jack Cerone’s reasons for having Willie ‘made’ in 1949.
    I will finish with this topic by saying that (unless Marco was ‘made’ in the last 9-months), no one will ever convince me that he is a ‘made’ man.

  • The Don

    Joe,  That’s fair enough. Let me close the subject by saying that Nick Calabrese testified that the Outfit operates in 6 sub groups called Street Crews. He also said that there were approximately 60 made active guys on the street at any given time. On television a few years ago, a news reporter was accurately repeating what Calabrese had stated ( Thank God, instead of giving his own stupid inaccurate opinion) and while he was talking, there was a chart behind him that listed the 6 Crews that was prepared by the people who debriefed  Nick Calabrese. The Chart had 6 squares. At the Top of each square was the Name of  the Street Crew. The top square was Elmwood Park. Next to Elmwood Park was Grand Ave. Right under Elmwood Park was Cicero/Melrose Park. Under Cicero/ Melrose Park was Rush St., 26th Street & Chicago Heights. In the Elmwood Park square the name of John DiFronzo was at the top. Under DiFronzo were several names within the Elmwood Park Square. One of the top names that I remember seeing besides Joe Andriacci & Pete DiFronzo was Marco D’Amico. I will try and locate that news report that was on television if I can but it’s time consuming and not really worth it to me to prove a point. Let’s just say that as a gentleman, I respectfully disagree with the opinion of the person who is telling you for whatever reason, that Marco D’Amico is not made.

    • I do not believe informants who have motives to get out of prison. In addition, in most cases I do not trust the media on Outfit matters because their sources are usually informants who have motives to get out of prison.

  • LOL

  • Special Quest Explorer

    That was funny? This “Harlem Playboy” should be fixed up with Tosco. Infact, I insist! When I saw that pic, I nearly fell off my chair..! LOL!

  • I tried to listen to it. For some reason I was unable to hear it. However, I get the gist of it from your message. So, in other words, all those men (burglars) lost their lives because of some dirty sheets, not the actual burglary? LOL
    Anyone who knows what really happened would know that Jack Cerone was more irate over what happened to his friend’s house than anyone involved. Jack pushed for those burglars to be murdered. Joe was simply flattered by Jack’s serious gesture. Johnny D and Lee Magnafichi (who were two of the organizers of those murders) carefully mentioned to Jack that most if not all of the intended targets (the burglars) might not have had anything to do with hitting Joe’s house. Jack responded by saying, “Sometimes the innocent have to go with the guilty, now get it done.” There was no concern about someone shitting in Joe’s bed. LOL.

    • The Don

      If Jack had not ordered the murders for Accardo, Roemer would have done it. Jack beat Roemer to the punch.

      • LOL
        Maybe Roemer cleaned Joe’s sheets.

        • The Don

          Roemer always said part of his job was “Shitty”. Now I know what he meant. Thanks, Joe.

        • Horsey F@rt

          LOL

  • That is the Bobby Hits that I know. That poor guy. I truly hope he gets off his face some day.

  • I was laughing at this story because it seemed ridiculous, until you mentioned Harry. Harry might have been one of the very few guys with enough respect and ba**s to do something very serious for a person who is deceased. Anyway, I do not know anything about this.

    • Tony

      It’s referred to as the “hit from the grave”. It was Sambo Cesario, who was Aleman’s uncle who married Milwaukee Phil’s girlfriend. Phil was furious and ok’d it before he died. It was considered Aleman’s first murder, his partner was Butch Petrocelli.

  • Black Angelo

    Okay Joe I believe you have a good source, and a good now deceased one. But I have good sources too and am a source for myself I might add by being on the streets since I was young. Like I said before I simply respectfully disagree with your notion that Marco is not made. Maybe you do have a motive behind it or your source has a ulterior motive in telling you that. I say Marco is made not only based on facts but just simple common sense. Plus I know how the Outfit operates. Not only do I believe Marco is made but I will argue he never even belonged to Jackie Cerone. For starters Joe Gagliano, John DiFronzo, Pete DiFronzo, Joe Andriacchi, Mike Castaldo, Joe Lombardi, Willie Messino (just to name a few) and Jackie himself. What do they have in common ? They all lived in Elmwood Park (especially from 1950s – 70s).. Some still live in the area till this day. Where did Marco live during that same era ? Cicero. JF, you know the Bald Eagle had a strict rule about all his guys living in Elmwood Park. Just as Obrien had a strict rule all his guys was to live in Cicero. When Turk Torello in or around 1975 asked Obrien for permission to move to Oak Brook.. Obrien said NO. (The old man Obrien lightened up in later years about that rule). You wanna go a step futher. The Maroon Lounge, Gene’s Deli, Valentino’s Café where all big Elmwood Park Crew hangouts. Marco never went to them. Sure Marco has been around long enough to stop in those place every blue moon. But day to day starting around 1960 he would always go to Nicky’s MGM Lounge, or run Obriens underground casinos in Cicero for him. Around 1970 he belonged to and ran the SAC on Taylor street.. The Surviors. These places where not Elmwood Park – Cerone’s men known hangouts. AT ALL. Around the mid 1980s Marco was sent out to Elmwood Park by Obrien. This is when Marco was in Elmwood Park day to day. So this notion that Cerone did not like Marco very well may be true, but on the flip side of that it was and is irrelevant because Cerone held know real power over Marco ..EVER. So if Marco was to be made before 1986.. Cerone didn’t have any way to Veto or stop that at all. About Marco taking care of Jackie Cerone ESQ while drinking. You act as if Marco was trying to appease to ESQ’s father by taking care of him while they drank. But actually they are good friends and like being in each others company. When Marco moved from Cicero to South Barrington. Their families became very close (ESQ raised his family their to). Their wives are the same age and both families have 4 kids that grew up together. So it was natural they would become close friends. They have taken vacations together for Christ Sakes. And Marco is clever I’m sure he would get Cerone ESQ drunker than skunk and hear him talk about his father and then report back to Obrien or DiFronzo (depending on what the year was).. What was going on with the Bald Eagle. And I just heard the other month 3 men extended with Marco are made: Tony Dote, Donny Scalise and Bobby Abbinanti. But the strongest evidence that Marco is made is that he was allowed to form his own crew in 1979.

    • Dear Black,
      Lee belonged to Jack and did not live anywhere near Elmwood Park. I have never claimed to know Marco’s life history. All I do know is that he was Jack’s boy for the last several years of Jack’s term with the Outfit. If Tony Dote is ‘made’, which I cannot believe, the Outfit would induct Mickey Mouse at this point and I would be the first to say that the Outfit is officially over, completely.
      I know that Marco likes Jack Esq., but not a great deal.

      • Black Angelo

        Did you just compare Tony Dote to Mickey Mouse LOL (and way off base I might add) !!!! Well if Dote is Mickey Mouse. Mike Sarno and Solly C are “Fat Bastard and Jabba the hut” or maybe we could call Pudgy Matassa them characters too. Anyways listen Tony Dote has been working for Marco since he was 27 years old. He has a good 32 years of doing work for the Outfit. He did 7 years in the joint for the Outfit like a man. And has brought in a lot of money for the Outfit with his wide ranging bookmaiking office. If your laughing Tony Dote off as some joke that speaks volumes of your source. People say Sarno is made and or a Mike Magnifichi is made. But I can guarantee you Tony Dote has made more money for Marco and Johnny D than those 2 aforementioned bozo’s. Maybe your confusing Tony with his brother Carl Dote who is a nice guy a goofy fat guy, but Tony is a serious guy and has been around for a long time. I heard one Anthony Dote was made after he was released. Take it seriously Joe.

    • The Don

      I agree with you about 85%. Marco was under Cerone for awhile. I doubt Tony Dote is made. I would say he is a high ranking soldier who works for Marco. I remember what my relative told me about Johnny making Marco his man. I also believe Nick Calabrese who layed out the entire structure of the Outfit and would have nothing to gain by lying. If Nick were to have lied, it would have been about something REALLY IMPORTANT LIKE MURDER. According to Calabrese, Marco is a made guy and belongs to Elmwood Park. All the crews lay off their extra bookmaking action to Marco and his partners & soldiers who work with him and under him. The person who is telling Joe that Marco is not made has an ulterior motive. The motive may be good to protect Marco or the motive may be bad and it’s out of some kind of jealousy. I don’t know and frankly I don’t care. I believe my relative, Nick Calabrese, and my common sense. I don’t care what anyone else says.   

      • If we ever meet in person (which is up to you), I will share something with you, which will convince you that I am right about Marco.

        • The Don

          Really. That would be interesting. I’ll keep that in mind. Until then we can agree to disagree. Is it possible you could send me an email like you did previously? I will honor it like I did the other one.

          • Black Angelo

            Joe I’m sure your source is a big name. I really do. But I don’t care if it is President Obama on this matter. Or even Marco himself. Because either way you look at it.. Like The Don stated “The person who is telling Joe that Marco is not made has an ulterior motive. The motive may be good to protect Marco or the motive may be bad and it’s out of some kind of jealousy. I don’t know and frankly I don’t care. I believe my relative, Nick Calabrese, and my common sense.” So whoever your source is even if it is a real real big name it does not matter on this matter of Marco being made. Seriously. And Marco never belonged to Cerone.. I’ve never seen any facts or documents to support that bogus theory. He did belong to extended Cicero in the 1960s and 70s and a John DiFronzo in the 1980s. And I do know why or part of the reason why Joe Andriacchi does not like Marco. That is sheer jealousy. But to long of a story.

          • The Don

            Joe,  Is there a reason why you’re ignoring my question about the email?  I go out of town a lot and I was wondering if you could send me an email about the Marco situation. If the answer is no, that’s okay with me and maybe sometime in the future we can meet. But, please do not ignore my question. Thank You.

          • I sent you an email a little while ago.

    • The Don

      Black Angelo,  How old is Solly D.? There is another stand up guy and very good at Bookmaking, Collections, Poker Machines, Executive Poker games or whatever he wants to do. A well versed made man in the traditional Outfit businesses. I believe these days he’s up in the Far North Suburbs. He belongs and always will belong to the Extended Cicero Crew. I’ll bet he’s overseeing Poker machines for the Crew up there.  Is Lou Marino out of prison? He and Lou were partners for a long time. If he hadn’t gone to prison for such a long time, he would have been at least the Capo within the Extended Cicero Crew and had made men under him in the various franchises of the Crews busnesses. A vary loyal and qualified man. Back in the late 1980’s and early 1990’s,  Fat Ass Sarno was a soldier working under him in the Bookmaking Business.

      • Black Angelo

        The Don, Solly D actually just turned 73 years old last Saturday. Their was a big birthday party thrown for him as usual. Pudgy, Marco, Tony Dote, Moe (Marco and Pudgy’s prodigy) (and their wives) and a lot of other cast of characters attended. Solly’s ex attorney (as well as John Gotti’s ex attorney) the fella Bruce Cutler sends him a gift, or a card, or cigars every year for his birthday. As you know Solly did a lot of time for the Outfit (16 years).. And for the most part he has scaled back his Outfit duties (from what I hear Johnny DiFronzo let him). I’ve heard Johnny also gives him a cut of the Aruba pie that Michael Posner sends in every month. And Solly, Marco, and Pudgy are all partners in some Costa Rica thing involving gambling, gaming, poker machines and jukeboxes. Solly has always been a hard worker he has a business behind the scenes doing Snow Removal (in the winter with his son Solly jr.) and has a carpet cleaning business with his wife (his 3rd wife for many years now). But he was gone for 16 years and Fat Ass Sarno ran a lot of things for him. But for the most part Solly does grandfatherly things and enjoys life like going to his grandkids soccer games, or football games. Or just recently attending one of his grandkids college graduations. Marco does the same things (for he is grandfather too) but Marco is much more active in the Outfit and has more rank to boot than Solly. From what I hear Pudgy is Solly’s driver and all are apart of Elmwood Park extended crew but overseer‘s of Cicero with Jimmy I. Lou Marino is still in prison and does not get out for another 5 years.. He’s at Milan. If there is a family secrets 2 he might be part of it I imagine. Solly’s mother is also still alive. Geez she’s got to be 96 or something now. Solly also has a very very nice villa in Naples, Florida he goes to a lot. And yes I agree with your other comment about Marco’s Bookmaking business. You do understand how it works .. Very well in fact. And where there is degenarate gamblers the juice loans will follow. Same thing with the high stake poker games that still go on in Chicago and Lake Geneva.

        • Tony

          I’ve been wondering what solly’s status is, thanks for the update. Would anyone want to comment on what Lou Marino’s role will be when he’s released? I know he was an up’n’comer before he went away and I would think he would get a ranking spot when he’s out.

          • The Don

            Tony,  Lou Marino is a made guy with the old extended Cicero Crew when Auippa was the Boss of the Crew and the Top Boss in the Outfit. Marino was a partner of Solly D. in the Bookmaking business. When he gets out, if he still wants to be active, he will probably work with Solly D. again either in Bookmaking, Loan Sharking or Poker Machines. Made guys never lose their right to supervise or run some kind of Outfit franchise. That is a right and privalege of being made. Especially, a made guy who’s done a lot of time honorably for the Outfit. That speaks volumes of their inner character.

  • Ther Don

    Horsey, the guy you’re talking about who got killed for messing around with Alderisio’s mistress was Sam Cesario. He was not beaten in front of his wife and he did not marry the woman who’s name was Fran. He simply got shot to death around Taylor St. area.

  • If Tony Dote was ‘made’ they might as well induct his goofy brother too. I know Sponge is ‘made’, he was ‘made’ a long time ago, and it does him no good whatsoever.

  • The Don

    Black Angelo,  are you saying that Anthony Dote is now Marco’s Partner? So, in conclusion, the Bookmaking operation has gotten so big that Marco basically has 3 junior partners running the whole operation with him. Am I correct? Do you believe that Marco and his partners, who are all Elmwood Park, took over where Cortina & Angelini left off? Sounds like it to me. Do you agree that the other Crews also lay off some of their action to Marco etc.? That’s how it used to be with Cortina & Angelini. I agree that Tony Dote is a stand up guy.

    • Marco has a piece of Tony’s action. Everyone knows it. Tony goes over his figures with Marco at the Moose Head in front of whoever is there. They might move to another table 3-feet away for 10-minutes.

    • Black Angelo

      Everything you just said I agree with Don. Marco was moving big numbers even when Cortina and Angelini was around. But even got bigger than them after they passed. So you can imagine the numbers their bringing in. Another thing I was told years and years ago by a good source was if a Outfit guy went to the can/joint and did over 10 years for the organization and did it like a man. He would become made just on that fact. They (the bosses) treated it as if it was a good earner or a good killer for the organization and got made on those merits. And yes Tony Dote is a stand up guy. He is certainly not a goof. The Don or Joe have you heard that rule that all the bosses abide by.. a guy does 10 years for us he is a man. A man amongst men.

      • The Don

        I have not heard that to be a hard fast rule but would certainly agree with it. My relative did 7 years and then did 2 years. What makes the Outfit successful is the interplay between the Street Crews. All the Crews are partners with the Dominent Crew. If there is an Underboss over the entire Outfit, then the two Dominent Crews. In the old days there was one dominent crew, Taylor St. After Giancana was gone, then the dominent Crew was Cicero and sub dominent Crew was Elmwood Park. Right now in 2011, I would say Elmwood Park is the Dominent Crew and Cicero is the sub dominent Crew. As a side note, you do know that Willie was the dead source and Magnafichi is the live source. I don’t think it’s any big secret. I mean Magnafichi gave three interviews with Joe and publicly criticized DiFronzo which I still find amazing. I think Willie was a better source than Magnafichi. Magnafichi has a lot of resentment about certain things which makes some of what he says a little suspect for me.

    • Black Angelo

      Sorry The Don I missed your question about if area bookmakers are laying off to Marco and Tony Dote.. Yes of course but Marco is swamped in action especially during the football season. He’s easily got to be the biggest bookmaker in the Midwest and South Florida I would surmise (Tony D has got a guy down their). Marco also belongs to a SAC on Taylor Street the “Near West” (he is a paying due member of said club, actually he is the biggest fundraiser of the club behind the scenes). He goes their and plays cards, poker, gambles and probably has 50 to 100 guys running books out of their and in and around Chicago or agents for his own book. Even old ladies (or ladies his age) gamble with him lol. The money Marco’s and Tony’s book is bringing in is astronomical.

      • The Don

        Black Angelo,  As you know, area Bookmakers have to become 25% agents with Elmwood Park ( Marco & Partners ) or they have to pay some kind of Street Tax to the Crew. In other words, either they work directly for the crew as Street Agents or they work independantly and pay a Street Tax. Each Outfit Crew operates the same way.  Now, what I’m saying, is that in addition to this formula that has been in existence for years, each Outfit Street Crew will lay off the action that is in excess to balane their books for cash flow purposes TO THE DOMINENT crew which would be Elmwood Park, ( Marco & Friends). So, I’m agreeing with you and further explaining in more detail how important Marco’s operation is and that the other Outfit Street Crews work with him on their layoffs. The Outfit Bookmaking Business was explained to me years ago and I understand it well. Also connected to the Bookmaking Business of each Street Crew in the Outfit is the Juice Business.

  • Special Quest Explorer

    To Don Or Joe and others; I noticed that there is a mention of the Maroon Lounge in Elmwood Park. I wonder if someone may update me on who the current owner is? And also, does this have anything to do with the Sicilian Soccer team located there? Thanks, SQE

    • In my experience, Gino Marino has always been the principle contact for Willie and/or Johnny, whenever use of the Maroon’s Club was needed. I never researched who else is behind it. Yes, the Maroon’s soccer team is affiliated (I am almost positive). One of my sources told me that Johnny had used the basement to kill people over the years.

  • All I am at liberty to say is that my attorney is still discovering the identities of the offenders, which should be completed soon.

  • Joey A was passed over in the early 80s when Jack gave Lee a big spot. Joey did not have hard feelings over it, at least not with Lee, because Lee was his best friend; and Lee took care of Joe. On Lee’s deathbed, he asked Joey A to take care of Michael and Joe did. Michael is the one that compromised his relationship in 2002 with Joey over 30-grand (a long story for another time). It is no secret that Joey does not like Marco, which is why Marco stays away from Joey. Johnny D is obviously Marco’s guardian angel, but if Joe should outlive Johnny, Marco had better go to Florida. In fact, I would put my money on Joey A if he would decide to go to war with Johnny and Marco, which would never happen. Joe and John might not love each other, but they have many years together in years past doing ‘things’ for Jack. Getting back to Jack for a second, he passed over Joey in the early 80s because Joey was the only one in the crew that spoke up a little when Jack would give ridiculous orders. Jack went overboard protecting his kid (the lawyer) from anyone that upset him. If I have $10.00 for every beating Jack’s guys had to give to a bartender or some other poor soul every time Jack the lawyer was offended, I would have enough money to help Bobby Hits get up off his face.

    • Black Angelo

      Bobby Hits lol very funny.. And I have heard stories about Jackie ESQ throwing his name around and using his/ and his fathers name to gain leverage rather it be at a bar or some business deal. I did hear one story of Marco or Bobby Abbinanti roughing a guy up for him at a club one night (meaning Cerone ESQ). But my source stands by Joey A getting passed over by Obrien (and not Cerone). Marco had to have “permission” to go out to Elmwood Park. Again I think Johnny DiFronzo (along with Obrien) had a lot to do with this. Marco has good organizational skills and formed his own crew (something Johnny D and Joey Obrien liked very much).. So Marco got the Elmwood Park Czar position. And Marco does not need a guardian angle. He’s his own guardian angle and or a guardian angle for other guys like Pudgy, Solly, Scalise, Moe, Bobby A, The Dote’s, some younger crew on Rush St. and some nutty Rockford guys that do things for him. And their would be no war, because Joey A is not stupid (he’s rather smart and shrewd). And if he wants to go to Florida (Joey A or Marco) its because their both in the mid to late 70s and that’s what you do when you’re a Chicago guy (and old) and have lots of money. Like in the early 90s when Black Sam went to Florida full time (before he was indicted). And Lee Magnifichi lol.. No offense Joe Fosco but I know your close to the Magnifichi family but he was like a Willie Messino. In other words he was a MADE Guy (a yes man and loyal soldier, direct to DiFronzo) but had no crew and was never the Elmwood Park Capo. Marco got that position because he had a crew, new how to organize and was a tremendous earner.. Hence the animosity towards him with the Andriacchi faction. Andriacchi is a tremendous earner in his own right. But Marco has way more rackets and connections in various rackets than Joey A. And Michael Magnifichi ended up being apart of the Outfit, he had no business being involved in that life. So what kind of favor did Joey A do for Lee on his deathbed.

      • You are entitled to your opinion and I am nice to allow you to share it on ANP. No boss would make a fall-down drunk as Marco a Capo.

        • Black Angelo

          Right, and I would hate for you to take the “American” out of American News Post lol.

          • The Don

            Well, You’ re right about that fact. I think American News Post is beneficial to guys like you and me. However, we are just as beneficial to American News Post with our inner knowledge of the Outfit and our postings. Without bragging, I think it is a very mutally positive thing for both sides. I think Joe would agree with me.

          • I do appreciate your input.

      • The Don

        Black Angelo,  I doubt Auippa would overrule Cerone about an internal affair within Cerone’s Crew. The way I understood it was that Auippa was the Top Boss but Cerone was also the Top Boss and basically equal to Auippa. If there was a stalemate between Cerone And Auippa over something of consequence, then Accardo was the tie breaker. However, let’s not forget that Accardo was the Guardian angel to Cerone and belonged to the Extended Elmwood Park Group in the same way Ricca was semi- retired and belonged to the Extended Taylor St. Group years ago. So, in conclusion, who really was more powerful, Cerone or Auippa? Answer: As long as Accardo was alive and as long as Cerone had the basic loyalty of his Crew, when push came to shove, Jack was actually slightly more powerful than Auippa. Again, mainly because of Accardo. Think about what I said and would appreciate Joe’s thoughts and your thoughts.

        • Black Angelo

          Obrien could overule anyone. And he was ticked off about getting indicted in the Strawman case and thought Cerone should take the heat. Joe B wasnt even indicted. But I was told Johnny DiFronzo conspired with Obrien to get Marco his position. Lee didnt even have a crew. I was told by my source the best organizers in the Outfit (even in the 1980s) was Johnny DiFronzo, MarCo D’amico, Frank Calabrese and Jimmy Marcello. Marco and Frank probably being the best.

          • The Don

            Black Angelo, Where I disagree with you is that I don’t believe Marco was a Capo in the Extended Elmwood Park Crew no matter how or when he got there in the late 1980’s. Sure, He had a crew but that doesn’t make him a Capo. Almost all made guys have crews. Frank Calabrese had a crew but he wasn’t a Capo. Back in the late 1980’s, the guys working under Marco were soldiers, not made guys. However, maybe now in 2011, Marco may be a Capo in the Extended Elmwood Park Crew, but not back then. I think he was a strong made guy but not a Capo. He was Direct with DiFronzo However, it is possible that NOW IN 2011, DiFronzo may have two Capos in the Extended Crew. Years ago, Giancana had two Capos in the Extended Taylor St. Crew, Bucciere & Battaglia. Elmwood Park Today has dominence over the other Crewa the way Taylor St. did years ago. Would you not agree? In conclusion, I agree with you that Marco is a made guy. I agree with you that he always had a crew. I think he may be one of two Capos in the Extended Elmwood Park Group ( the other being Andriacchi ) but I do not think he was a Capo in the late 1980’s.

          • Black Angelo

            Well explained. It was just Marco went from  a Taylor Street SAC. To Diversey in Elmwood Park. He was placed usually that is a good indicator for someone getting a promotion in the Outfit. I take you and Joe Fosco’s pts well. You both make good pts.

          • Black Angelo

            Well explained. It was just Marco went from  a Taylor Street SAC. To Diversey in Elmwood Park. He was placed usually that is a good indicator for someone getting a promotion in the Outfit. I take you and Joe Fosco’s pts well. You both make good pts.

          • Black Angelo

            Well explained. It was just Marco went from  a Taylor Street SAC. To Diversey in Elmwood Park. He was placed usually that is a good indicator for someone getting a promotion in the Outfit. I take you and Joe Fosco’s pts well. You both make good pts.

    • The Don

       Joe,  My relative would second you on Jack having men in his crew threaten and sometimes beat up people who offended or argued with his son. That was a misuse of power by the Boss, Cerone, and the men resented it. There were a couple other times when the men were used for other personal reasons which I won’t go into right now. I also agree with you about how Joey A. would speak up and disagree with Jack about certain ‘orders’ that really had very little or nothing to do with business. Jack resented Joey A. to a certain degree and would complain about him sometimes to whoever was listening. That is very true.

  • The Don

    Black Angelo,  Very interesting  except you’ll get an arguement from Joe Fosco about one thing. Joe said that Lee Magnafichi was made the Capo within the Extended Elmwood Park Crew when Johnny became one of the two Top Bosses in the late 1980’s. You are saying that not only is Marco Made ( which I agree ) but He was also made the Capo within the Extended Elmwood Park Group. Joe Fosco says Cerone had the final call on who would be the Capo within his own group. You’re saying Auippa overruled Cerone and made Marco the Capo. Very interesting. To be honest, I’ve heard it both ways in the past and I really don’t know which scenario is correct. My relative went along the same way so nothing changed for him. I wish I could go back in time and ask him which scenario is correct. He indicated to me only in general, that Lee & Marco were both powerful men.

  • Special Quest Explorer

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=1WyvHiTV428

    Doyle, Ricca and Calabrese talking..!

  • The Don

    Black Angelo,  Do you think Guzzino is the Capo of the Heights Crew? The far South Suburbs is a hot bed of Outfit activity, especially Poker Machines. Some people underestimate the Heights Crew and some even more uniformed people think that the made guys and their soldiers down in the Heights territory are part of the 26th St. Group. I say Bullshit. The Heights is a viable crew  with a Capo, Made guys and soldiers just like 26th Street, Grand Ave., & Cicero. They all answer to Elmwood Park and are all partnered just like in the past. The only crew that got swallowed up was Rust St., not Chicago Heights! Your thoughts?

    • Tony

      I agree that the heights is still a viable crew. What’s your opinion on the Rockford crew?

      • Perhaps The Don knows about Rockford. I never really followed that part of Illinois. Sorry.

        • The Don

          When I was in college in Chicago, there were a bunch of Italian guys in my fraternity. Some of them, like me, had relatives who were actual members of the Outfit. I’m not talking about associates who did business with the Outfit like street agent Bookmakers or bar owners that had poker machines, I’m talking about actual members. One of the Kids named Joe had a relative that was an actual Mafia man in Rockford. I think his last name was Zito or Zamuto, I’m sorry but I don’t remember. Anyway, it seemed to me that Rockford was a small crew  and that they were somehow involved with the Sicilian Mafia from Italy, in other words the Zips. I think his relative and a few other guys were part of the distribution network of heroin. The Chicago Outfit would not be directly involved in something of that nature except if some ‘juice loans’ were made to Rockford Guys and they made payments to the Outfit guys that provided the loans. That was how the Outfit got around the ban on dealing directly with narcotics. Sometimes, ‘juice loans’ were made to known narcotics men or other type of street criminals and the Outfit stayed out of directly being involved in certain activities. This kid’s father came over to Rockford directly from Sicily. The Sicilian Mafia’s main business was the maufacturing and distribution of Heroin. They sent certain men over from Sicily to America to be on the receiving end of the  Heroin for distibution.  I believe Rockford one one such spot in the Midwest. That’s all I know about Rockford. 

          • The Don

            Joe,  Do you know when The article about Sam DeStefano will be ready?

          • The Don,
            I decided to write the DeStaefano piece, allowing you to expand it as you normally do, through the comment thread. Initially, when I asked you to write or co-write it, I overlooked ANP’s policy requiring authors to be listed as contributors. If in the future you would care to sign up, please let me know.

          • The Don

            Fair enough. Thank you.

          • You’re welcome.

  • Marco never had a company with Bill Jr.

    • Black Angelo

      No Marco just had a crew their and Bill Jr had a Midwest Distributing Company (it was like a jukebox company) which was big in the 1960s (his father Potatoes probably got him the company) it was called Northern Illinois Music Company, before Midwest Distributing.

      • Louie The Mooch was Bill’s partner.

      • The Don

        You’re correct. Willie Potatoes was part of the Extended Taylor St. Crew and had that Music company which was involved with the old juke box racket. Willie operated out in Dupage County. He was close with Chuckie English, also a Juke Box man. Chuckie was direct with Mooney. Willie was obviously also with Mooney but served more directly under Sam Battaglia. They involved Joe Gagliano from the Elmwood Park Crew as a partner in the juke box distribution. My relative was involved as a collector.  Taylor St. accepted Joe Gags even though he was born and raised on Grand Avenue, but they refused to work directly with Cerone back in the early to mid 60’s on the juke box racket. So, Cerone had his underboss of the Elmwood Park crew, Joe Gags handle it. There was always tension between Cerone and the hard core Taylor St. men. Always.

        • After Gags died and Willie went off to prison and died, Bill Jr and Louis ran it.

          • Black Angelo

            I figured he inherited from his father lol. Bill Jr is still a smart fella.

          • Bill Jr is smarter than Bill Sr and Bill III put together.

          • Black Angelo

            Wow that is saying alot because Potatoes (Bill Sr) was equally as smart as he was ruthless. So Bill Jr must of been some friggin genius lol. I’ve never met him but my source knows him very well. He’s a smart guy and took advantage of every oppurtunity he’s had in life. Like Donald Trump did when his dad Fred Trump left him all that cash and gave him the inroads to work with in the real estate industry.

          • I was very close with the Daddono family for a number of years. Bill Jr is very smart. he did a good job teaching his sons, but Bill III has head problems, worse then you could imagine.

          • Bill Jr hated dealing with Jack. In fact, when Johnny took over Jack’s spot, Bill was very happy.

        • Black Angelo

          If Giancana had gotten his way in 1957/58 Cerone Esq. would of been fatherless at the age of 18. In other words Giancana wanted Joe B’s head. And if Ricca would of gave the Okay to that. Cerone would of went with him to the graveyard. Joe Gags would of got a pass. My 2 cents.

          • The Don

            Amen, Brother.

          • I just received word that my piece on Dyno was recently published.

  • Dom

    Black.. I agree with the first part of your statement that the Hts. is hard to follow. There is still Outfit there. I would bet that the ones that are running it today were not in the spotlight during the Pilotto/Tocco era like Guzzino was. There were alot of rough characters out of the Hts. that were in the thick of things back then and the government knew nothing about them. Or at least the government did not look at them with any significant importance.

    • The Don

      That probably applies to all the street Crews. It was easier for everyone to operate years ago. The Heights might have been at their peak probably before Pillotto when LaPorte was the Capo down there. LaPorte and his men were a very successful group and worked well being partnered with The Extended Taylor St. Crew. The succession went from LaPorte to Pillotto to Tocco during the good old days. Jimmy the Bomber was also part of that crew along with Toots Palermo & Guzzino etc. The Heights faction of the Oufit were rough Boys.

  • Dom

    Also Black, chop shops are no longer part of it. Whoever told you that is misinformed.  

    • Black Angelo

      Dear Dom I could care less about the Heights now. Just a bunch of dried up gambler in NW Indiana lol and I said they “dabble” in the Chop Shops meaning financing behind the scenes via Black Super Gangs

      • Dom

        Black super gangs? (lol) I am not even going to touch that one. Thanks for the laugh, Black.

  • My father took orders directly from Pillotto on union stuff and met with him in the Hts quite a bit. My father was an underboss to Pillotto on union matters, as my father enforced Pillotto’s orders over other union leaders.

    • The Don

      Joe,  How was the control over unions structured? Was it territorial like the Street Crews or was there a lot of overlapping? Vinco Solano up on the North side was also a Union official? Did your father work with him also? Pillotto was a powerful Capo.

      • Ill get back to you later, i do not have the time to answer right now.

        • The Don

          Joe,  I was wondering if you have time to talk about how the union activity was structured? I have a pretty good idea but I would like to hear your opinion and your father’s expanded role. Let’s put it this way, I think there is a lot of overlapping that transcends territory. Certain guys were made in the past and usually were direct with the Top Bosses of the Outfit for easier access to made men and high level associates across the board.

          • Dear The Don,

            I could only speak of the period of my father’s involvement, which was 70s and 80s.
            Al Pillotto, Romie Nappi, Pat Marcy, John DiFronzo, Joe Ferriola, Vince Solano, Dom Senese, Angelo Fosco and my father were the majority of the connections guys (in labor political) linking the Outfit bosses to a wide range of labor leaders and other public figures closely related to unions. I must refrain from explaining in full detail, because I cover it in my book. In the meantime, I hope I gave you some sense of direction on the matter.

          • The Don

            Yes,  pretty much what I thought. However, I was surprised to see Joe Ferriola’s name. I would add Joey Lombardo’s name.

          • I did not put Joe Lombardo’s name in because he was done when that Senator Canon and Dorfman stuff occurred. But, you are right, Lump should be named.

            PS, check your email.

    • Dom

      Joe, do you have any old photos of your father with Al Pilotto?

      • No, but I could try to sketch one for you. Just joking. lol

  • Tony

    My grandfather owned a towing company and salvage yard that doubled as a chop shop from the thirties to the late seventies when they ran into quite a bit of problems during the chop shop wars. As a young child I can remember getting the windows of our Cadillac shot out as i sat on the front porch and required nightly police drive by’s. I can also remember seeing Chuckie Nicoletti and Chuckie English around the shop. Nicoletti was always very friendly to me. I used to have the run of the place, but there was one part that I was never ever allowed to enter. It was located around 35th and California. Why do you think the outfit gave up chop shops? I always thought that was one of their biggest money makers, and I have a hard time believing they would give it up after all the work it took to get everyone in line.

    • I have no proof that the Outfit did give up chop shops. However, if they are out of that industry, perhaps it is more difficult to operate today because of tracking devices and other security measures.

  • Dom

    Don: Cutting up cars is a thing of the past. Kind of like having to use a public pay phone to contact someone when your away from your house. You seldom see them anymore. The last time I seen a chop shop in the Hts. area was in the mid 1990’s.

  • Black Angelo

    Tony, Joe, Don, and Dom I gotta tell yeah I dont think the Heights (let alone the Outfit) is out of the Chop Shop business. Their either in the distribution of stolen vehicles or transportation (overseas). It just makes no sense that a billion dollar black market industy and the Outfit just simply is not in it. It would be like saying “well the Outfit is out of Gambling now.. they no longer are part of it”. Give me a break. Dom claims their is some “rough characters” sleeper types still from the Tocco Regime. Well having said that their is no way in hell they would give up Tocco’s claim to fame and especially the money it generates. Like I said before I believe they or some other Outfit crews “dabble” in that racket (financing). To much money involved and The Bomber and Tocco gained a major foothold in that industy. I still remember the “Chop Shop” wars. Tocco was not fooling around.

    • The Don

      Black Angelo,  Dabbling is a very good and useful word. I agree with what you said and it makes perfect sense. I still believe their biggest money maker with the normal ‘hands on’ operation is poker machines. Would you agree? 

      • Black Angelo

        YES ! (without a doubt)

    • Logic

      Nino Cisternino is probably one of those Dom is talking about in the Heights. 

      • Do you know Nino? I hear his eye’s are bad, causing serious vision problems.

  • Special Quest Explorer

    to Joe Fosco, Notice that the certain Yahoo that I told you about that paid me a visit had a grandfather, that I spoke to you about. Notice, another yahoo, that gives me a hard time, in here, mentions a grandfather. Joe what are the odds? Joe, it’s too close for comfort. The things he says matches this person’s actions. If it’s not him then, this person in here goes to the guys club..! 

    There just are too many coincedences..!   He told me that he is on to me, then I  get a visit from the same soldier, I told you about. Joe Fosco, please acknowledge the similarities and keep a mental note of them..! SQE

  • Black Angelo

    Dom are you from Chicago (WAKE UP !! ) or just uninformed yourself. Your laughing over what I said about the Outfit financing via Black Super Gangs in the Chop Shop/ Stolen Vehicle industy. Or laughing that I used the term “Black Super Gangs”. Come on now ! According to the FBI if a syndicate/organized group of people have more than 20,000 estimated members you are labled a SUPER GANG. Chicago has 7 of them in this category !! And in the city of Chicago their is an a average of 25,000 stolen cars a year !! That is on average 2,000 cars a month !! That is too much money for the Outfit to stay clear of. Their are Used Auto Parts, Salvage Yards (especially in NW Indiana) and these hidden underground Chop Shops flourishing in Chicago. Laugh at that. I’m uninformed LOL. Lets get serious now.

    • The Don

      Dom,  Black Angelo has a very valid point. Within the last 10 years, the somewhat  diminished power of the Outfit has led them into more partnerships with other organized crime groups like Bikers & street gangs. Sometimes these partnerships are formed for the purpose of making money in non traditional ‘hands on’ Outfit actitities. The traditional ‘hands on’ activties of the Outfit have been and still are Poker Machines, Bookmaking, Loan Sharking, Union Racketeering &  Street Tax Collections from Independents. I believe the Outfit is involved in other illegal activities through financing. Remember, If some Black Street gang Leader of a Set ( which is what they call small street crews in a particular neighborhood ) needs ready cash for some score, he can’t go to the Bank Of merica and get a loan. 

    • Dom

      Black Ang… I was taking about Chicago Heights. Your comment to me was that the Heights guys are financing chop shops from behind the scenes through black street gangs. I am telling you that is bullsh*t. I am sure there are people in the Chicago area that are still involved in that sort of thing, but the money that was involved in that business before is not there today, not like 1980. So I doubt they are still flourishing (in fact, I know they are not in the Hts.) Technology has taken a toll on that trade. Stolen Luxery vehicles are the money maker today (in the stolen car business), and they are not being stripped for parts, they are being resold for a big profit. This particular business is dominated by independent groups that specialize in this trade.  

  • Teets

    Hey Joe. It’s me, Teets, of course. I’m just popping my head back in here to defend myself against some ugly comments made by some people. This is a Taylor Street forum, obviously. Giancana and Paul Ricca are gods, but Anthony Accardo is a no-good mutt, I see. I’m sorry to notice that you doubt my story about Anthony Accardo and his B-team guys having some cheap laughs at the expense of Paul Ricca. Well, it happened. Let me share something with you. Anthony Accardo didn’t rise to the top of the Outfit by acting like a lapdog or altar boy. He was cruel and was capable (more than capable) of having some cheap laughs against the dignity of others. I see that The Don (LOL) is up to his old offbase tricks.

    So Joe, when are you going to get those Sam Urbana stories together. Yes, at different times, he was on and off pals (criminal pals) with Don Angel, Cortina, and Lee. Lee and Sam were both very respected, but I’m sure Lee had authority over Sam. Good for them that they personally never came to blows with each other. Was Sam Urbana a made guy?

    Keep on keepin’ on (LOL)

    Teets

    • I am almost positive that Sam was not made. I will double check. In fact, my answer is no, but i will still double check. I will get the stories together soon.

      • Atothe_

        Sam who wasn’t made??

        • Sorry, it has been so long, I do not recall who my comment pertained to.

          • Pagliaccio

            Teet wanted to know if Sam Urbana was made….

          • I am not sure.

    • The Don

      Yes,  And Accardo also made President Kennedy come over to his house and cut his lawn naked singing ‘ Born Free ‘.

      • Was that at the ranch?

        • Bob T

          Joe, please remove the Don’s comments, he is a windbag!

          • The Don

            Bob T,  You’re right! I’m sorry, I’ll try and blow less.

      • Chitowndago

        While Bobby Kennedy was in the back yard by the BBQ trying to find investors for his family’s new investment, post bootlegging, “Rogaine.”

    • Trapper

      Great point Teets.  The Taylor street cheeleaders seem to forget that Mooney was JB’s driver.  I still believe that Ricca AND Accardo had the final say on all big decisions.

  • Black Angelo

    Joe Fosco, Answer a question for me, but I don’t think Joe B was ever “Chairman” or “Top Boss of the Entire Outfit”. Mooney without a doubt was more powerful, and I believe Obrien was more powerful than Joe B also. Of Course Ricca was so powerful for so long I believe that is what prevented Joe B from ever becoming the top guy and or Chairman. I do believe he was powerful though. Like Top 4 Outfit Guy in Chicago for 50 years. But never Top 2. I believe Roemer and others like Hillel Levin boosted up Joe B to be Boss of all Bosses or Boss of all Bosses behind the scenes for an certain era. But I’m calling that pull f*cking bullsh*t. Your thoughts Fosco or anyone….

    • Chitowndago

      To Black Angelo: Your theory is plausible due only to the fact “Outfit Guys’ back then still had pride & loyalty.” Joe B. was one of the founders without a doubt. He was a very respected and powerful man in many circles. Between the media, author’s, mob watchers, etc. we all need to read between the lines and not try to make everything into a unsolvable math problem. Certain things are what they were, and is what it is. Most of the time things with the Outfit aren’t as genius or schemed in the way you might think they are or were.
      Any more it’s just luck of the draw.
      Momo was way ahead of his time with his thinking for future legit businesses & so were several others.
      I also believe the way people described him as “Public Hungry” or compare him to John Gotti is rediculus. Sam was actually very private and hated the spotlight.

      • Black Angelo

        Chitowndago, I understand what your saying. But disagree that the Outfit isn’t genius or schemed to a certain extent. It is a very hierarchical organization and has been since Nitti designed the crews and how power and rank was decided. And what guy had to get permission from another guy to do said crime (that continues till this day). I agree with you 100% on Mooney.. he was in fact very private. Hell he lived in the same bungalow for decades. Roemer and other media types tried to define him as this swaggering Gotti type who liked the limelight. But I never saw Mooney indicted on Tax invasion charges (like Joe B for living his flamboyant lifestyle). Plain and simple Mooney became boss of the Outfit right after Appalachin when the heat got put on the mob. They say Joe B kept his head down but in reality he was irrelavant as all hell during Mooney’s regime. So he had no choice but to keep his head down and get indicted for being flamboyant. Then in 1972 after Ricca died Obrien took over as Top Boss (or the guy who made the final decisions) and Joe B would continue to be irrelavant and take his vacations to Palm Springs and what not.

    • The Don

      Black Angelo,  100% correct brother. In the very old days before Giancana became the acting Top Boss with all of his Taylor St. men,  The Top Boss in the Outfit was the West Side Crew headed by Paul Ricca which covered the 1st ward which controlled all of Chicago. Accardo was the Partner of Ricca and the Underboss of the entire Outfit with his Grand Ave. Crew. After Ricca semi-retired, Giancana became the Top Boss within the West Side Crew which was now referred to as the Taylor St. Crew. When Accardo semi-retired, Jack Cerone then became the Boss of the Extended Grand Ave. Crew which became known more as the Elmwood Park Crew. That’s why Accardo wanted Cerone to  be the #2 Boss of the entire outfit with Giancana which was the position Accardo had with Ricca. Giancana refused and that was the end of it. What does that tell you? The bottom line answer to that very good question you asked is that Accardo was NEVER the Top Boss of the Outfit. He was the #2 to Ricca because Grand Ave. was #2 to Taylor St. until Auippa ( Cicero ) became the Top Boss in the very late 1960’s. 

  • Chitowndago

    The Don: Your right about the Kennedy’s. I can be very long winded on this subject. I’m going to keep it short. He made a deal with the devil so to speak. He had every intention of having his sons come down on organized crime to cover up what he did & protect himself and his family from the public finding out. The Irish back in his day hated the Italians. They treated our ancestors like dirt back then.
    Long story short; Kennedy’s screwed over The Outfit & Organized crime and vice versa. Both took it in the pooper on that deal.

  • Special Quest Explorer

    ATTENTION TO ANYONE THAT READS THIS. jOE fOSCO HAS EMAILED THE DETECTIVES MY LEAD. HE HAS FACEBOOKED ME THAT HE HAS DID THIS!

    this Tony that has posted threatsbwas on my information that i gavehim for these detectives. Iwould being willing to put my email address on here and forward my messages from Joe Fosco stating this! This person keeps coming in here and turningnit around mirroring me to the opposite like Tostos is doing! Please, ask Joe yourself if I can prove his massage to me. It one of those professional lying situations. Oh yeah, I’m sorry, you saw it yourself. Him telling that I am in danger girlfriend we’ll see. How about, me screaming for attention? Would ya give me a break?  How so, screaming?

  • Letemrde

    black ang. im so glad your back gonna get yourself in dutch with the wife again you keep posting so much.  I just got talking bout that with my uncle, and ive said that because of his age and timing it seemed like he fell between Paul and Mooney in terms of not being able to be at the top, i think the closest he came to being no 1 was when Paul was locked up from the Hollywood shakedown but due to their shear numbers and just hardcore earning potential and viciousness with all of taylor st. Mooney just steamrolled, but i think Joe B was fine with that arrangement cuz it took him out of the spotlight without making him look weak like he just hung up his hat.  Ive felt like he maintained a consigliere role in truth to the public looked like the boss cause of timing.  But Obrien I think he had rank on him especially because of Jack in later years, but in Mooney’s tenure i still he was a nudge above because of his time with Ricca

    • Tony

      My uncle was at one time engaged to Accardo’s daughter Marie. Obviously it didn’t work out and noone in my family will say why to this day. As soon as it’s brought up it gets immediately squashed.

    • The Don

      Letemrde,  Basically correct. However, to be a bit more detailed about it, let me remind you that Ricca and Mooney were both part of the same Crew within the Outfit. That crew was the West Side Crew which controlled the First Ward which in turn controlled Chicago. Later, when Ricca semi-retired, Mooney became the Top Boss of the Crew which now was called the Taylor St. Crew. Same Crew, just was referred to by a different name because Mooney became the Boss of it with all his Taylor St. men. Ricca was His Mentor and Chief Advisor. The Grand Avenue Crew was headed by Accardo and He was the #2 Boss of the entire Outfit. When He semi-retired, Cerone became the Boss of that Crew which was now referred to as the Elmwood Park Crew. Here comes the big difference! Cerone should have been the #2 Boss of the entire Outfit with Mooney as the Top Boss. However, Mooney refused this arrangement which went against Outfit protocol. So, During Mooney’s reign, there was ONLY the Taylor St. Crew which was DOMINENT. All the other Crews were Partners with Taylor St. THERE WAS NO #2 Boss. THERRE WAS NO SUB DOMINENT CREW. This open display of defiance by Mooney caused all the tension between Mooney & Cerone. Accardo had to try and remain as neutral as possible but disliked Mooney as much as Cerone disliked Him. Mooney didn’t trust Cerone. Period. The Extended Taylor St. which contained Mooney & Ricca was very powerful and had two Capos within the crew. Those two men were Bucciere & Battaglia. So, in conclusion, during the reign of Mooney, Mooney was the Top Boss & Ricca was his Chief Advisor, Bucciere & Battaglia were Capos within Mooney’s Crew, Cerone was the Capo of Elmwood Park with Accardo as his Chief Advisor, Ross Prio was the Capo of the North Side Crew, Auippa was the Capo of the Cicero Crew, & LaPorte was the Capo of the Chicago Heights Crew. All were partnered with and answered to Taylor St.

      • The Don

        Black Angelo,  Check out my posting right above this one. I have one question for you. Who was older, if you remember, Accardo or Auippa?

        • Joe B was a little older, not much. several months.

          • I just looked it up, Joe B was about a year and a half older.

  • Letemrde

    My question was what operations and where were Joe B’s biggest markets, and was he only getting a cut from his crew and an end from Ricca, but regarding the nitty gritty financials like what specific racket what day did they do pickups, especially under surveillance all the time who did pickups, this really interests me for all the bosses really.  Like what Black angelo was talking about regarding Aiuppa having like 100 booking agents underhim. The very lower rung south suburb stuff i grew up hearing about makes you see its not as rigidly organized and clear as you may or may not think

    • The Don

      Letemrde,  Accardo was the Underboss of the entire Outfit and Partner of Ricca who was the Top Boss. Besides having their own crews as their power bases, Ricca & Accardo inherited some made men who were always direct with the previous Top Boss. In addition, the other Crews were all partners with Accardo & Ricca on EVERYTHING. The soldiers, who are not made guys but work under the supervision of made guys that operate franchises, do the daily collecting of loans, or collecting from the Poker Machines, or the collecting or  paying off with the street agent bookmakers who are 25% partners with each  particular crew.  The money then flows upwards to the made guys and then to the Bosses. The Outfit has always been well organized with men doing specific things. If you look up the word ‘ Syndicate ‘ in the dictionary, that word best describes the way the Outfit operated. The Outfit in the past has traditionally had One Dominent Crew ( Top Boss’s Crew ) One Sub Dominent Crew  ( Underbosses’s Crew ) and then the other crews headed by a  Capo. All the crews are partnerts in one way or another with the Two Top Crews. I hope I was of some help to you with your question.

      • Black Angelo

        The Don and Letmrde, the only thing is . is that Joe B never became Top Boss. after Ricca died in 1972 or so Obrien took over the 1 spot. The Cicero Extended crew with Black Sam (and his crew), Angelo Lapietra (and his crew), Joe Nick and the Wild Bunch, Marco D’Amico (and his crew), and of course Turk Torello (and alot of other sleepers Obrien had) is what got him the 1 spot in the early 1970s over Elmwood Park/Grand Ave Extended i.e. Joe B, Cerone, Lombardo. And The Don correct me if i’m wrong but Ricca was partners with all the heiarchy of the Outfit meaning Mooney, Joe B, Obrien or whoever had a powerbase in the Outfit because Ricca was a Chairman/Top Boss in the mold of what a Obrien or a Johnny DiFronzo has become (in other words Mooney was never a Chairman but Top Boss… Joe B was never any of those). By the way had Turk Torello lived we wouldnt be talking about a Johnny DiFronzo as a Chairman (maybe a Top Boss). Turk would of been the #1 guy over Black Sam, Joe nick, Johnny DiFronzo. Turk would have been both out of Cicero-Taylor Street Extended. And yes Letmrde i’m back on the threads. I’m “retired” and my kids are grown. Gave my wife a couple of three vacations .. so she let me back on here or I just decided to get back on.

        • The Don

          Black Angelo,  Agreed. I believe you’ve got the right idea. Accardo never became the Top Boss of the Outfit. Ricca was the The Top Boss. Auippa was the Top  Boss AFTER Mooney and Battaglia. Then, The Power was Extended Cicero Crew ( Auippa ). Ricca was like the Chaiman because he still had men left over from the Extended Taylor St. Crew that were with him and of course He was The former Top Boss who was semi retired. The killing of a few of the Taylor St. men who were direct with Ricca started AFTER Ricca died in 1972. Yes, Mooney was a Top Boss but never lived to be a Chairman because he was gone from Chicago too long. Yes, Accardo was The UNDERBOSS to Ricca and Boss of the Extended Grand Ave./ Elmwood Park crew but was never the Top Boss. You’re absolutely correct with your assessment about Turk Torello. He would have been the Top Boss in the Outfit with 26th Street as his power base.  And, you forgot to include one more guy who would have been the other Top Boss in the Outfit. This guy would have been the Underboss To Turk and the Boss of the Elmwood Park Crew had he lived. His name was JOE GAGLIANO! The other 4 crews would have been partners with Joe Gags & Turk. The Outfit lost two highly qualified men at a relatively young age. Turk died at 49 years old. Joe Gags died at 56 years old. Do you agree? In my mind there is no question.   

          • Black Angelo

            Yes I agree with that assessment. Most definately Turk would of been Top Boss/Chairman today (he’d be 80/81 years old today had he not died so suddenly). The only thing is i’m not sure Joe Gags would of been the #2 only because I dont know if he was less powerful than Cerone or maybe equals. But whatever decision Turk would of made would of elevated that said individual. And yes Turk and Joe Gags died at a very young age. To put in perspective.. Joe Gags was around the same age as Willie Messino and Jackie Cerone (Joe Gags died 31 & 25 years respectivelly before those guys died). And Turk was around the same age as Johnny DiFronzo and Joey Lombardo (the latter two are still alive, Turk has been dead for 32 years).

          • The Don

            Black Angelo,  I meant in 1986 after Cerone went away, if Joe Gags had been alive, he would have been the Boss of  the extended Elmwood Park Crew instead of DiFronzo and he would have been the #2 over the entire Outfit. Since we were talking hypothetical, that’s what I was refering to. In 1986, if Turk & Joe Gags had still been alive, I believe that would have been the new power structure according to what my relative had told me. I believe we are in complete agreement. I know Joe Fosco would agree with that opinion also. 

          • Black Angelo

            No doubt about it Don, because Joe Gags was above Johnny Bananas. So once Cerone went away Joe Gags would of been the #2 man in the Outfit. Behind Turk. Everybody liked Joe Gags too so its believable Turk would of Okay’d. But knowing Turk I could see him vetoing a #2 who wasnt with him from Cicero. For Example when Mooney told Cerone to stay in Elmwood Park and “Shut the F*ck Up”. In other words he wasnt going to be Mooney’s #2 ever !!!

          • The Don

            Black Angelo,  You  got that right. Usually the #2 Boss, who is the Underboss of the entire Outfit has to have three big qualifications : 1) He is the normally the Boss of the 2nd most powerful street crew in the Oufit 2). He has the experience and seniority. 3) He is well liked across the board because the remaining Capos of the other street Crews will be working closely with him along with the Top Boss of the Outfit. Joe Gagliano would have had all three qualifications had he been alive in 1986. Had Turk been alive in 1986, He would have been the Top Boss which would have made 26th street really strong. Pietra would have been the Capo within the extended 26th street crew. DiFronzo would have become the Capo within the extended Elmwood Park Crew, Ferriola would have remained the Capo of the Cicero crew, Solano would have remained as the Capo of the Rush St., Lombardo the Capo of Grand Ave., and Tocco the Capo of Chicago Heights. Carlisi, who was direct with Auippa, would have now been direct with Torello. This of course is all a hypothetical scenario had Turk and Gagliano been alive in 1986. My relative told me this scenario years ago when he was explaining the importance of Joe Gags. He also said Gags and Torello were close and together would have been a very strong alliance. They both were tremendous earners and understood the way the street rackets operated extremely well. 

  • Father Guido

    Who were the first Capone or Outfit guys to organize or take over union locals.  I know Obrien was ground floor on that, along with a fellow named Spano.  (most likely Paul and Mike Spano’s father)  Also what position in Ricca’s Outfit did Campangna hold he literally lived 2 blocks from Nitti, Nitti in Riverside and Campagna on Maple Ave in Berwyn.  I think Lefty Campanga was as high as 2 or 3.  It is after his death that Mooney got a big bump.  Joe B. is giving credit for taking over the national wire service’s which allowed the outfit to control gambling on a national level  pre vegas.  That is were Joe B. got alot of his loot.  My two cents on Accardo, he was valued highly and represented the Outfit in Havana, partly due to his Sicilian background.  Most of the other top Outfit guys were from Southern Italy, around Naples.

    • Black Angelo

      Guido, Mooney was Sicilian also and very close to Santo Trafficante (who also was Sicilian) who was a powerhouse in Havana. Mooney I believe in the late 1940s and early 50s was out in Havana alot. And Johnny Roselli should be given alot (but not all) the credit on taking over the wire service and especially in Vegas. A series of events happen in 1946/1947 that helped the Outfit gain control of the wire service (with 2 murders one in Chicago (James Ragen) and in Vegas (Bugsy Seigel)). Bugsy actually got the wire service first but the Outfit murdered him and took over his casino and national wire service. This is when Roselli stepped in with the help of Ricca and Sid Korshak.  Nonetheless Joe B was very powerful just never Top Boss of the Outfit.

    • The Don

      Father Guido,  I agree about Accardo representing the Outfit on Havana. Ricca was the Top Boss and was from around the Naples area. It would have made sense for Ricca to have sent the Underboss and #2 of the Outfit, who happened to be Sicilian, to represent the Outfit at that time. Years ago, when push came to shove, when dealing with New York, it was to your advantage to have a Sicilian representing you over a Southern Italian. Years later, it didn’t matter too much anymore. John Gotti’s family came from the Naples area but of course now we’re talking about a much later time frame in the history of the American Mafia. It’s funny how the Italians always had their little rivalries among each other. Years ago it was the Sicilians & the Neapolitans. Years later, in Chicago, it was Taylor St. versus Grand Ave.

  • The Don

    Joe,  refresh my memory about Outfit Capo Al Pillotto. What was your father’s reaction when Pillotto was shot and wounded in 1981? What year did Pillotto’s underboss, Tocco, take over as Capo of the Heights faction? Was it before your dather passed away? Did your father report to Al Tocco? Was Tocco a union official like Pillotto?

    • I was young when Al was shot. However, my mother remembers that my father carried his gun in his hand a lot more often when walking to or from his car, which lasted a couple of weeks. Al was sent off to prison after he was shot. I am not sure whom my father dealt with immediately after Al went away. Eventually, my father would deal with Johnny Difronzo and/or Joe Nick. I do not believe my father ever reported to Tocco. I am not sure when Tocco took over for Al. I had gotten to know Al in the mid to late 90s. It was through Jackie Jr and Willie that I had the chance to really chew the fat with him.

      • The Don

        As I suspected. I do not think Tocco was involved in the union business like Pillotto. So, when Al went away, Tocco became the Capo of Heights and your Father was redirected towards Ferriola ( Cicero ) & Elmwood Park ( DiFronzo ). I know Pete DiFronzo was involved in handling union business. I believe that was more his direct responsibility in the late 1980’s. However, like most union guys, your father apparantly was always direct with one or more of the Outfit Capos. First Pilotto, then Ferriola and/or DiFronzo. I’ll bet sometimes he also dealt with Vince Solano.

  • The Don

    Solano, The North Side Boss, and his personal Underboss, DiVarco, could never order a made man, even in their own Crew, to be knocked down. It would never happen. Joe, thanks for pointing this out in your article. The Outfit is not the wild west. Rule number #1, The Two Top Bosses in the Outfit control everybody’s gun.

  • Letemrde

    joe do you have a photo of joe gags you hear alot about him.  However i can’t find a photo.  What was his personality like.  Mild mannered, a dyno like pyschopath, a scumbag like cullota.  Ive often wondered this.  Like from all of Ferriolas picks even one that looks like it was taken in someones backyard at some event, there he even looks pretty damn frightening

    • No, sorry. However, i did see one on-line once.

    • The Don

      Letemrde,  Joe Gags was the underboss to Jack Cerone of the Elmwood Crew. He died around 1970. He was very well liked and helped Cerone tremendously. There would have been no Cerone without Joe Gagliano. Mooney liked Joe Gags and many times when Mooney directed a message or an answer to something, he directed it to Gagliano, not Cerone. Had Gagliano not died in 1970 at 56 years old, in 1986 when Cerone went away, He would have been the Boss of Elmwood Park and the Underboss of the ENTIRE Outfit. A great earner and well respected across the board by all made men in the Outfit.

    • Black Angelo

      Letemrde, He was a balding guy, had a nice disposition. Nondescript mobster really.

  • Anonymous

    what is the situation now in organised crime in america, is it the same as its always been or has it all stopped or quietened down a bit?

    • The Don

      Quieted down a bit. Never stopped. The more the Government focuses on being the Police Force of the whole world and spends  money and time trying to police other countries, the better it is for Organized Crime in America.

      • Anonymous

        thanks for your reply, i have been watching crime inc on dvd, its very interesting stuff, i see the mafia ran the construction industry over their, i wonder is it the same here in london, with all the major concrete contractors here i wonder is their mafia involvement, i wont dig to deep or i may end up IN the concrete lol

  • Anonymous

    i was watching that on the crime inc dvd, interesting stuff

  • Mooney used to let Milwaukee Phil do the same thing. It is not uncommon for the person who is aspiring to be something to take the initiative to show his or her superiors how bright he or she is. The wiser ones usually keep their mouths closed and ears open. However, the final decision in those days was Paul’s decision.

    • The Don

      Agreed 100%.

    • Black Angelo

      Ricca is the one that told Joe B to move out of that big fucking house. You never saw Mooney with a friggin tax case. Ironically when Ricca was telling Joe B to move to a smaller house. Obrien was building a big fucking house out in unincorporated Oak Brook or what was Elmhurst back then (1958). Obrien was alot smarter with his taxes though. He had alot of companies in Cicero. Joe B drew alot of attention to himself, when he could not back it up with a front job. Obrien could. And Mooney believe or not was just low key. but your spot on Joe Fosco, now carry on with the Lee article lol.

      • In the 1960s, Paul Ricca told my father and Uncle Romie to downsize their large suburban homes. My Uncle Romie lived in a beautiful home he had built, which was located in Westchester. He sold it and bought a 3-bedroom condominium in River Forest, where he lived until he died while taking a nap in his den. Charlie Nicosia moved into the place with Romie after he sold his home in Elmwood Park.
        My father lived at 1101 North Fair Oaks in Oak Park, which was a large corner home (however, nothing like Joe B’s, although much nicer than Mooney’s home). After receiving the orders to move, he bought a modest ranch a couple of blocks away, where he lived until he died of cancer in 1987. The modest home is still owned buy my family. Of course, my father had an additional modest home in Elmwood Park that he discretely bought for my mother. If you had asked me in 1987, I would have told you my father lived in Elmwood Park. My parents kept the fact that they were not married to each other from my younger brother and I. We learned the real deal shortly after his death. Obviously, my father spent a great deal of time in Elmwood Park, which I why it made sense to me that he lived with us.

        I will have the Lee piece done by the end of the week.

  • It was Joey O and Jack’s idea (mostly Jack’s idea) to kill the burglars. They wanted to pay respect to the old man by taking care of the problem and send a message to the renegades on the street. If a lesson were not taught, what would stop the renegades from going into Joey O’s house next?

    • The Don

      Agreed, but this time 120%.

  • Paul loved Joe B as much as he loved a few other people, including Mooney. Every time Mooney wanted to kill Jack, Joe B would go to Paul and Paul would tell Mooney (aka Moe) to let it go. In latter years, Joey O gave Jack a pass out of respect for Joe B. Joe B and Joey O were close. Joey O knew that Joe B loved Jack, which is why it was after Joe B’s death that Joey O would have knocked him down.

    • The Don

      Agreed 110%.  Joe,  I would like to add that Mooney hated and distrusted Jack.  Auippa was much more neutral about Jack but started to dislike him little by little as the years went by but never to the the degree of Mooney.

  • Five finger discount man

    Here’s an interesting story on Johnny Gattuso. http://bitterqueen.typepad.com/friends_of_ours/

  • Logic

    Joe–Question…when are you doing the piece on Nick Gio?  Is he released and back on the street now and if so, is he still with the Outfit?  Also I remember you saying James LaValley had been murdered…any evidence for that at all?  Also, how was LaValley brought into the Outfit?

  • Allenjames32

    I buy the ejaculation %100, John killed his #2 cause he can’t kill the public anymore. Came up with some BS on him, got Andriacchi in on it with a promise to take his place. Next thing u know the little guys trip to Andriacchis area ends in MIA. I bet horse face wondered if a good killing would do what Viagra & his wife couldn’t anymore.

    Also he wouldn’t need to be hit there, stabbing the shit out of two guys with anything other then MC hammer pants is gonna get your stuff rubbed, most don’t get turned on by that in any circumstances; But John D isn’t anyone

    Also, you got or had anything on Don Angelini Sr?? New the familly REAL well. I’ve read he was nice, but he looks a bit off in his mug shots. & u can’t join when he did with out doing some work. But I’ve found nothing on any of that.

    • Dear Allen,
      I am unaware of any murder victims who were suspected of being killed by Angelini or Cortina.

      • Allen James32

        Dont doubt it, and I really didnt know them that well.  It was brief and never personal, but they where great people.   What I new of them was nothing but good, but I dont think I should have said “new them real well”  Wanted to be totally honest

  • I know where it is. Its that goofy looking compound looking structure off Ogden.

  • Atothe_ or Allenjames32

    I ment Mom in law, the mother of the cozzos, wife of former mafia big wig

  • Then Grim Reaper

    The guy who ejaculated was Joe Fosco telling this ridiculous story.

  • The Grim Reaper

    My comment about your father is a credible as your comments about John DiFronzo that supposedly came from a dead person ( Willie Messino) who is not herre to defend himself.

    • The Don you know you are blocked from this message board for harassment issues. Your opinions and comments are not wanted. Too bad you are not man enough to identify yourself.

  • Sam From Buffalo

    Joe Fosco, I think The Don made you paranoid. Why would you even mention him as being someone who commented? He is long gone and doesn’t care about you at all in my opinion. He basically destroyed your blogs which in the end seemed to be his purpose. I did enjoy his commentary until he started questioning you repeatedly. But everytime you have someone comment negatively in some way or disagree with you, you end up calling that commenter ” The Don ” or you accuse the commenter of being a DiFronzo. I mean, seriously Joe, I think it makes you look bad. Anyway, keep up the good work

  • gianfranco

    Le loro idee camminano sulle nostre gambe. In onore dei giudici Falcone e Borsellino

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